To Those already turning on CBJ...

[KBVol]

First started pulling for the Vols in the mid 1970s, during the Bill Battle years. After playing my youth football games on Fall Saturday mornings I would come home and work in the yard with my mother and father ... they had the radio blaring so we could listen to John Ward.

I remember very clearly the day when Johnny Majors came home after being named the new head coach at his alma mater.... In 1977 after winning a NC at Pittsburgh.

I attended 2 college football games as a kid... both were University of Tennessee games played in Memphis because I lived in West TN.

My first game in Neyland was September 28, 1985, vs Auburn.... 38-20 UT, TRob and the boys were awesome, Bo took himself out of the game.....I was hooked, filled out my application to attend UT on September 30....

Missed 1 home game while at UT, the 1986 loss to Army when they blocked a punt in the end zone.... had a rather interesting night with a newly acquainted coed the night before... I'll spare the details.

Spent 4 incredible years in Knoxville, earned my degree, graduated class of '90.

Celebrated the huge wins, Peyton's announcement that he was coming and then that he was staying, the 1998 NC... died a little bit with all the losses.

Fast forward... after 2 horrific hirings and the firing of a HOF coach due to some rough years at the end, I quickly became excited after Butch's hiring. Has done EVERYTHING right OFF the field. I'm still excited, just not so sure after 3 embarassing beatdowns where the team didn't remotely compete.

I've been 1000% behind Butch... probably still about 950%, but some doubt has crept in... how could it not after 131-36?

Perspective guys. Nobody's gonna tell me I'm not a "VFL" and not get a response. To me it's called balance and perspective.... praise the good things, criticize/voice your thoughts on the things that must be corrected, always show up on Saturdays to hope, pray and pull for a Volunteers win.

VFL indeed.

 

[onevol74]

First started pulling for the Vols in the mid 1970s, during the Bill Battle years. After playing my youth football games on Fall Saturday mornings I would come home and work in the yard with my mother and father ... they had the radio blaring so we could listen to John Ward.

I remember very clearly the day when Johnny Majors came home after being named the new head coach at his alma mater.... In 1977 after winning a NC at Pittsburgh.

I attended 2 college football games as a kid... both were University of Tennessee games played in Memphis because I lived in West TN.

My first game in Neyland was September 28, 1985, vs Auburn.... 38-20 UT, TRob and the boys were awesome, Bo took himself out of the game.....I was hooked, filled out my application to attend UT on September 30....

Missed 1 home game while at UT, the 1986 loss to Army when they blocked a punt in the end zone.... had a rather interesting night with a newly acquainted coed the night before... I'll spare the details.

Spent 4 incredible years in Knoxville, earned my degree, graduated class of '90.

Celebrated the huge wins, Peyton's announcement that he was coming and then that he was staying, the 1998 NC... died a little bit with all the losses.

Fast forward... after 2 horrific hirings and the firing of a HOF coach due to some rough years at the end, I quickly became excited after Butch's hiring. Has done EVERYTHING right OFF the field. I'm still excited, just not so sure after 3 embarassing beatdowns where the team didn't remotely compete.

I've been 1000% behind Butch... probably still about 950%, but some doubt has crept in... how could it not after 131-36?

Perspective guys. Nobody's gonna tell me I'm not a "VFL" and not get a response. To me it's called balance and perspective.... praise the good things, criticize/voice your thoughts on the things that must be corrected, always show up on Saturdays to hope, pray and pull for a Volunteers win.

VFL indeed.

Totally agree, not buying in to an unproven coach has nothing to do with your Vol Fan Card. I, like you, am loyal to the program, not the coach. I agree that Butch is doing an excellent job off the field. Just waiting for some evidence of coaching ability with "The Best Coaching Staff in the Country." So far I am still waiting.

 

[Sudden Impact]

I agree OP.

The dynamics of this board are simple.

7-10% are Trolls.

Another 10% are just proclaimed VOL Fans, posters that love drama, stir crap, overreact to everything.

10-15% are out and out complainers or whiners that are never going to be happy of which you will never please, regardless of the coach or staff.

Most in these groups wanted this fixed yesterday, they can identify all the issues/problems but have zero viable solutions. So they complain and beat their chest.

Some would say this is msg board mentality, but some of the posters are dead serious and looking for an argument.

It's ok to question a coach's decision, but it is also smart to let his decision play out. By doing so, it works out.

CBJs and staff are on a learning curve playing in the SEC without the resources this year to fix it. He will be fine and we will see improvement every year he is here.

Wish we had a work around to this, but they would always find a way to make their negative opinions known.

 

[lukeneyland]

You can not expect ANYONE to change the culture in his first year at a program.

By culture I mean the mindset the Dooley instilled into our players over a 3 year span. The mindset of a quitter. Dooley spent all three of his years here doing his best to sabotage our program and convince our players and our fans that it is "OK" to lose some games. That some teams just out talent us.. they are faster then us...we just cant win. Once your down a few scores, just turn your belly up to the sky and hope the rub it, instead of kicking the krap out of you.

CBJ is just as pissed over these loses as any fan in volnation. He is just as disgusted with the outcome of those games. Just as enraged that some of our players decided to quit and mail in the game as soon as we were down.

BUT.. he cant change it in a single season, You can't do it with a single recruiting class. Not when it was pounded into us as a team and a fanbase for so many years.

I saw Jones recruits still giving it everything they had as freshmen, trying to turn it around and battle to come back.

While so called "upperclassmen" and "leaders" decided the game was over and stopped playing.."If they even started playing to begin with" The younger guys can't do it by themselves.

But he is changing the culture. It WILL take a couple recruiting classes. It WILL take a few Springs and Falls.

And WE as fans need to help him out, by showing these recruits that we are not going to quit on them just because it gets a little ruff. Just because we get a black eye, does not mean the fight is lost. We are going to be there to support them while they fight their way out of the abyss.

If we can do that, UT will be back within a couple years.. Teams will fear the Orange once again.

JUST PLEASE don't quit on our coaches and players already... LET US lead by example. Let us show these players that this is what we expect. A never ending fight... if we can do it as fans, then you can do it as players.

All you trolls and Negavols.. Flame away, I don't care.. I will still be here tomorrow, supporting our players and coaches, No matter what troll comments you make. No matter what synical smartarse posts you care to make.

I am a VFL... that L means LIFE, Not until we lose really bad

Quite possibly with the exeption of the "girls of Florida thread" the best thing I've seen in here

 

[TeddyYeti]

I don't feel like any have actually turned against our coach. But I think there are those that were against him from the start, the ones who thought 'their man' should have been the coach instead of coach Jones. The ones who like to say, "I told you so".

 

[CountVolcula]

I love these real fan posts

 

[T2P_Priceless]

I grew up in TN also from the 70s - 90s and always was and still am a Vols fan. I have cheered loudly for our team and always been optimistic, even through these latest of years. Although I've found myself throwing my hat more often than usual in games since Fulmer went downhill.

Anyway, I left TN to join the AF back in 94 and I'm still serving. The reason I tell you this is because I would like to make a comparison of Tennessee football to fighter pilots, bear with me.

One of the biggest reasons that our AF is the best in the world comes down to this: criticizing and pointing out flaws. No kidding, it really is the secret.

After every mission, whether training or real world we conduct a debrief. In this debrief we take off our rank and sit around pointing out mistakes and trying to find the root cause, ultimately coming up with "instructional fixes" and lessons learned.

The real trick to this and why we continue to get better is because it started years ago with big mistakes, then slowly it began to narrow down into smaller mistakes, until now we're calling a pilot out for missing his drop by 1 sec. Which btw, can cause it to be off by miles. Why were you off? Fill in the blank... Well why did that happen? Fill in the blank... and so on until we find the root cause.

So what does this have to do with UT football and this thread. Well I think it's important for not only the coaches to continually improve until they're making small corrections. But it's also important for the fans to show their enthusiasm for improvement. I think the fans keep pressure on the coaches, the team, and the administration to get better. I mean I want a coach that internally wants to always get better and doesn't need outside pressure but I also think it's important for our fans to give it within reason to "push" them to get better or force their hand if they don't.

Just my 2c. :salute:

 

[InVOLuntary]

So if the Vols lose to Vandy and/or KY then that's OK? Talent disparity shouldn't be an issue so we're gonna go with the players have been programmed by Dooley to be losers. And you can't deprogram players in one year?

 

[GLDunlap]

You can not expect ANYONE to change the culture in his first year at a program.

By culture I mean the mindset the Dooley instilled into our players over a 3 year span. The mindset of a quitter. Dooley spent all three of his years here doing his best to sabotage our program and convince our players and our fans that it is "OK" to lose some games. That some teams just out talent us.. they are faster then us...we just cant win. Once your down a few scores, just turn your belly up to the sky and hope the rub it, instead of kicking the krap out of you.

CBJ is just as pissed over these loses as any fan in volnation. He is just as disgusted with the outcome of those games. Just as enraged that some of our players decided to quit and mail in the game as soon as we were down.

BUT.. he cant change it in a single season, You can't do it with a single recruiting class. Not when it was pounded into us as a team and a fanbase for so many years.

I saw Jones recruits still giving it everything they had as freshmen, trying to turn it around and battle to come back.

While so called "upperclassmen" and "leaders" decided the game was over and stopped playing.."If they even started playing to begin with" The younger guys can't do it by themselves.

But he is changing the culture. It WILL take a couple recruiting classes. It WILL take a few Springs and Falls.

And WE as fans need to help him out, by showing these recruits that we are not going to quit on them just because it gets a little ruff. Just because we get a black eye, does not mean the fight is lost. We are going to be there to support them while they fight their way out of the abyss.

If we can do that, UT will be back within a couple years.. Teams will fear the Orange once again.

JUST PLEASE don't quit on our coaches and players already... LET US lead by example. Let us show these players that this is what we expect. A never ending fight... if we can do it as fans, then you can do it as players.

All you trolls and Negavols.. Flame away, I don't care.. I will still be here tomorrow, supporting our players and coaches, No matter what troll comments you make. No matter what synical smartarse posts you care to make.

I am a VFL... that L means LIFE, Not until we lose really bad

Starting a thread like this only draws attention to the very small number of fans that don't fully support CBJ. If your goal was to be positive why not start a thread stating "99% of VFL still support CBJ unconditionally"? I guess that just wouldn't be dramatic enough.

 

[livefaith]

I'm not turning on him but will answer some of your points anyway. I HAVE criticized what look like some coaching shortcomings. I HAVE said and fully believe that they are not getting the maximum potential out of the current roster. This is based on a somewhat subjective but also somewhat objective opinion about the available talent. It is not "great". But it was a 7 win roster. Before you argue, ask yourself if Jones had a do-over could he have beaten UGA and UF?

...


I am neither a troll nor a negavol. I am a hopeful person by nature. I regretably ignored too many failures of the last staff from the very start that should have been warning signs. This staff still has time to prove they belong in the Big Leagues. For the last 3 games, the D staff has not proven they're up to it. Hopefully that changes... because it MUST.

That is a really intelligent post. Thanks.

 

[Sudden Impact]

The only thing I am stating is if you are not in a wait and see mode, then you are not being a fan. Not supporting this team at this point of CBJs tenure is just not realistic. IMO.

Jones has made some decent strides so far. As a fan you can be cautiously optimistic or cautiously pessimistic. Nobody is forcing anyone to drink the koolaide.

 

[T2P_Priceless]

I think some of you are missing perspective here on this fan thing.

IMO, I would argue that 99.999% of posters on this forum are REAL fans. Unless you are a really dedicated troll, then why would you continually post in this forum.

You wouldn't. So whether someone is complaining or cheering on this board they are most likely a fan. JMO.

 

[Weezer]

True fan post in response to questioning the coach = Butch Jones Fan. It does not equal true Vol fan. Learn to separate the coach and the team. The coach is a man paid to do a job. Like any other professional, he is subject to being questioned. It comes with the territory when you're paid millions to do a job.

I sincerely hope CBJ turns this around, but I will not refrain from questioning his abilities because some have this ludicrous idea that doing so means you don't support the team. I support the team 100%, but sometimes, the coach you have hinders the team. See Dooley as an example. I'm not saying CBJ = Dooley, but he hasn't proven himself as the man for the job yet. When you get beat like a drum in three straight games and don't question coaching, that makes me wonder if you're a "true fan". Guess it makes you a true fan of CBJ, but certainly doesn't make you a true Vol fan. Maybe Freak can start another site called ButchNation for all of those putting the coach above the team.

 

[butchna]

True fan post in response to questioning the coach = Butch Jones Fan. It does not equal true Vol fan. Learn to separate the coach and the team. The coach is a man paid to do a job. Like any other professional, he is subject to being questioned. It comes with the territory when you're paid millions to do a job.

I sincerely hope CBJ turns this around, but I will not refrain from questioning his abilities because some have this ludicrous idea that doing so means you don't support the team. I support the team 100%, but sometimes, the coach you have hinders the team. See Dooley as an example. I'm not saying CBJ = Dooley, but he hasn't proven himself as the man for the job yet. When you get beat like a drum in three straight games and don't question coaching, that makes me wonder if you're a "true fan". Guess it makes you a true fan of CBJ, but certainly doesn't make you a true Vol fan. Maybe Freak can start another site called ButchNation for all of those putting the coach above the team.

I'm sure we'd see your fine work on there as well
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[Weezer]

The way people throw around the "true fan" label on this board has me tempted to respond to every ff post with either "true fan" or "not a true fan" and just leave it at that. Why be rational and have intelligent conversation when you can keep things that simple?

 

[UTVolWarrior98]

To Those already turning on CBJ... If you think it's bad now.


Lose one of the next two and you haven't seen anything yet. Not that I will add to what comes.... just sayin.

Yep, us negavols as you continue to call us will REALLY give you sunshine pumpers a war you wont believe:salute:

 

[Weezer]

I'm sure we'd see your fine work on there as well
Posted via VolNation Mobile

I like CBJ. Seems like a nice enough guy. I love the Vols. World of difference between like and love. If CBJ gets it done, I'm all for him, but my point is he hasn't gotten it done yet. He's shown some streaks that he could be the man for the job. He's also shown streaks that he might not be the man for the job. At this point, only time will tell, but the OP is arguing in absolutes. There are no absolutes in football. And to argue that questioning a coach means you're not a true fan of the team he's coaching is just asinine. Sometimes, the coach is the problem. I don't think that's the case here, but I'm not gonna swear absolute allegiance to Coach Butch just because he happens to coach the Vols. I'm all for giving him adequate time to prove himself, but he still has to prove himself. He doesn't get a free ride.

 

[T2P_Priceless]

Btw, let me add that all these folks that are here now are posting after the last several years of poor product. I would call anyone who's on board now after this BS a REAL fan.

 

[jkleno]

One possible answer that no fan and least of all me even wants to consider is that, like CDD before him, CBJ has "lost" this team and it really does not matter who he puts on the field.

The next two games will tell us a lot.

Great point. Short and sweet, but 100% correct.

 

[ShoalCreekVol]

We will find out the next time we loose a game.

*lewz

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Who is turning on Butch Jones?

New here are ya?

 

[CountVolcula]

I'm just wondering if Jones wins against Vandy will he celebrate the win?

 

[ShoalCreekVol]

I think right now it's pretty clear that we are one "family" with two generations merging. Butch May have lost the veterans, juniors and senior like our OL, who seem to have one foot out the door. But he seems to have the full confidence and loyalty of the young guys. As this team continues to rotate out the old guard and rotate in guys who are Full Butch, the group will continue to improve in consistency and results. This kind of transition period is not unusual for a team that had hit rock bottom and gets a new coaching staff with a completely new mentality.

I don't know how much the upperclassmen have tuned out Butch (or to say "he has lost them") or how much of it is that Butch is sick of their crap and so PO'd at them that he just wants them gone. I wouldn't blame Butch for feeling that way, since I feel that way just watching 'em.

 

[InVOLuntary]

I think right now it's pretty clear that we are one "family" with two generations merging. Butch May have lost the veterans, juniors and senior like our OL, who seem to have one foot out the door. But he seems to have the full confidence and loyalty of the young guys. As this team continues to rotate out the old guard and rotate in guys who are Full Butch, the group will continue to improve in consistency and results. This kind of transition period is not unusual for a team that had hit rock bottom and gets a new coaching staff with a completely new mentality.

I don't know how much the upperclassmen have tuned out Butch (or to say "he has lost them") or how much of it is that Butch is sick of their crap and so PO'd at them that he just wants them gone. I wouldn't blame Butch for feeling that way, since I feel that way just watching 'em.

He should bench them then. Give the youngins some experience.

 

[tennrich1]

I'm not turning on him but will answer some of your points anyway. I HAVE criticized what look like some coaching shortcomings. I HAVE said and fully believe that they are not getting the maximum potential out of the current roster. This is based on a somewhat subjective but also somewhat objective opinion about the available talent. It is not "great". But it was a 7 win roster. Before you argue, ask yourself if Jones had a do-over could he have beaten UGA and UF?

I AM very concerned when the team isn't even competitive with teams like Mizzou and Auburn. Neither of those programs are far if any ahead of UT in talent right now. One of them also has a new coach. Yes you can. Zook to Meyer was immediate. Nutt to Freeze was immediate. Majors to Fulmer was immediate. Sherman to Sumlin was immediate. Chizk to Malzahn was immediate. Dinardo to Saban was immediate.

When a great coach replaces a dud... more often than not their impact on the culture is immediate and profound.

If you believe any of this... you need help. Dooley did give up. He lost hope. By mid-season last year he had quit recruiting and pretty much quit coaching. I think he wanted out.

But he did not spend 3 years intentionally trying to sabotage the program or anything of the sort. If rumors are to be believed, he asked out after the '11 debacle and Hart convinced him to try one more season.

Fan base? You were wrong about a great coach's ability to change a team but now you think it matters what the fan base is like? You are reaching badly.

If you saw that then Jones did right? So why didn't he yank the upperclassmen?

My only complaint with Jones personally is that he has not done just that. The only upperclassman I know of who has lost his job is Worley... and he deserved it less than several others that continue to start.

I hope so... but you KNOW this how? It ain't from results on the field. I ain't from consistent effort. It ain't from great defensive schemes and coaching.

Few if any have "quit". That is nothing more than a strawman you and folks like you try to throw up because you can't answer some of the criticisms intelligently.

I have praised and criticized this staff. Never have I said Jones needs to be fired or anyone else right now. I have concerns about the quality of the defensive staff... but I hope you don't think my expressing them here will impact recruits more than uncompetitive efforts on the field. What do you think Jones spends more time trying to explain to these recruits.... performance on the field or what some fan says on a chat board?

So you have to close your eyes and sing kumbaya in order to support them? I don't think criticizing sub-par coaching is a lack of support or fan caring. This D staff needs to show improvement and that right quick or the least of UT's recruiting problems are what a few fans are saying here.



I am neither a troll nor a negavol. I am a hopeful person by nature. I regretably ignored too many failures of the last staff from the very start that should have been warning signs. This staff still has time to prove they belong in the Big Leagues. For the last 3 games, the D staff has not proven they're up to it. Hopefully that changes... because it MUST.

You lost me when you thought Missouri and auburn were only same level of talent as we are....,,, they have team speed .....we do not and of story.... Until we admit this and get speed in the right positions we will be no better.... just hold on for Pete's sake.... Speed is on the way...,SIGH!!!!!!