Tom Mars: "The End of the NCAA"

[OldVol]

Per Tom Mars, Attorney representing Spyre:

"I think this will be one more brick in the wall that is the end of the NCAA," Mars said. "Short of intervention by Congress, the demise of the NCAA now seems inevitable based on nothing but a financial analysis, as it appears the NCAA is poised to lose all of its upcoming antitrust cases. The cumulative effect of which, could make the NCAA financially insolvent."

"A bad case is a bad case, and they've put all their defenses forward," Mars added. "And there's no precedent anywhere in the United States that supports their defenses."

"Turning upside down rules overwhelmingly supported by member schools will aggravate an already chaotic collegiate environment, further diminishing protections for student-athletes from exploitation," the NCAA said in a statement. "The NCAA fully supports student-athletes making money from their name, image and likeness and is making changes to deliver more benefits to student-athletes, but an endless patchwork of state laws and court opinions make clear partnering with Congress is necessary to provide stability for the future of all college athletes."

Corker said the NCAA's lawyers did not make a compelling argument for why using NIL contracts as recruiting inducements would undermine the academic side of college sports.

"While the NCAA permits student-athletes to profit from their NIL, it fails to show how the timing of when a student-athlete enters such an agreement would destroy the goal of preserving amateurism," the judge wrote.

Time to break out the lifeboats, NCAA.

View attachment 622432

The iceberg Tennessee just ripped its hull from stern to aft.

 

[volfanhill]

I wonder if this guy is related to the Mars candy people.

What a strange thought

 

[vol4him]

And there is no going back, much akin to the opening of Pandoras box. Without some kind of governing agency, anarchy will prevail and we are seeing the beginnings even now. I admit that the NCAA brought this on themselves due to their high handed and uneven rulings in the past, but some equitable entity needs to be in place to govern this chaos.

Don’t turn doomsday, anarchy will not reign. It was clear in the SEC-Big10 move to launch an exploratory commission that whether it’s the two conferences or the Power 4, there will soon be a college football commission (much like the NFL) that will govern the major college football programs. Sit back, relax, and be glad we are definitely a part of the future. Some programs maybe left out. Additionally, Tennessee has the facilities, administration, and financial support to compete in this future reality. GBO!!

 

[strkr]

It's the end of college football as we know it.

How do you feel about that?

When ya start paying athletes it is the end of college sports- football, basketball, baseball, etc. It is semi pro ball.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

When ya start paying athletes it is the end of college sports- football, basketball, baseball, etc. It is semi pro ball.

In that case, college sports ended, oh, let's see, football was first played by a college in 1869? So probably somewhere around 1870, college sports ended by your viewpoint.*

This is not a logical way to look at it.

College players have been getting paid to play for decades upon decades. It's still college football. And still will be, decades from now when NIL is old hat, standard, normal.

Here's a more accurate description of the "end of college sports." When the players no longer have to be students, attend classes, keep themselves in good academic standing. When being a student is no longer a requirement for being an athlete of the university's teams, THEN college sports will have ended.

And I don't foresee that day coming for...well, ever.

Go Vols!




* being facetious. It probably actually took until somewhere around 1910 or 1920. Heh.

 

[savannahfan]

You can't be serious, Saban would be a disaster. You think for one second Bama was not paying players under the table? And speaking out about nil deals before a player played a down of football, and he did the same thing with Young at qb. yet criticized others for doing it. Saban does not like nil because he had the under the table money covered up by ncaa, and the state of Bama. He wanted nil and tp to be done away with where he could continue to stack 4 and 5 star players on the bench. With the new tp and nil. Nick could see he could no longer do that when all pay is out in the open. Where do you think Pruitt learned from?

Hey,, Bama was being Bama long before Nick. He just refined the system, with the the help of many others inside and outside the program. However, if you want to correct the wrongs of anything ask a reformed master of the shortfalls of the system being questioned. I still say he is discussed with the state of the leadership of college sports.

 

[Scottt5]

Considering that ncaa is destroying Women's Sports via biological males, I say good riddance.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Here's a more accurate description of the "end of college sports." When the players no longer have to be students, attend classes, keep themselves in good academic standing. When being a student is no longer a requirement for being an athlete of the university's teams, THEN college sports will have ended.

I honestly don't see how, if the players are named employees who play football for the school, the "student in good standing" rules can be maintained.

Does the school REQUIRE the maintenance staff or coaches or professors or Chancellor or anyone in full-time employment to attend classes?

 

[knox73]

Ohio gaming regulators ban NCAA player props

The Ohio Casino Control Commission (OCCC) on Friday granted a request by the NCAA to prohibit wagering on prop bets involving collegiate athletes.

www.espn.com

NCAA has moved on and is after the casinos - regulating gaming. This is a nice mission for the boys and maybe they can get a slice of the casino losses.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I honestly don't see how, if the players are named employees who play football for the school, the "student in good standing" rules can be maintained.

Does the school REQUIRE the maintenance staff or coaches or professors or Chancellor or anyone in full-time employment to attend classes?

And what makes you think student-athletes will ever be employees of universities?

As it stands today, student-athletes are, in some cases, employees of NIL collectives. Those aren't the universities, by any means. In other cases, the student-athletes are self-employed and have contracted with the collectives (again, not the universities) to perform in much the same way an independent contractor would. Think the Amway/Mary Kay model, if you wish.

In none of those cases are students employees of the universities. In other words, the NLRB got it wrong.

That's how it is now. That's how it may remain for the long term. We'll see how it plays out.


p.s. My wife was an employee (teaching assistant) of the same university at which she studied. Got paid, got a W-2, the whole works. Yes, she was required to maintain a certain grade point average, follow the student code of conduct, and in all other ways remain in good standing as a student of the university. So even if schools were at some point to become the NIL employers, there's plenty of precedent for requiring the student-athletes to remain students even while employed.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Totally agree. The market will self correct. In the under the table days, a school could spread around a few 100k and get a good team, now we are talking multiple millions. If no return on investment can be shown, business will not participate. At that point the well funded collectives will be very important.

Big donors in the future could, maybe shy be from private companies who are no pouring millions of $$$ into major football Universities. Redirect those funds into NIL pots and use the revenues from ticket sales and SEC TV revenues. For example, monies from the Foot City could have been to NIL funding

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

And what makes you think student-athletes will ever be employees of universities?

As it stands today, student-athletes are, in some cases, employees of NIL collectives. Those aren't the universities, by any means. In other cases, the student-athletes are self-employed and have contracted with the collectives (again, not the universities) to perform in much the same way an independent contractor would. Think the Amway/Mary Kay model, if you wish.

In none of those cases are students employees of the universities. In other words, the NLRB got it wrong.

That's how it is now. That's how it may remain for the long term. We'll see how it plays out.


p.s. My wife was an employee (teaching assistant) of the same university at which she studied. Got paid, got a W-2, the whole works. Yes, she was required to maintain a certain grade point average, follow the student code of conduct, and in all other ways remain in good standing as a student of the university. So even if schools were at some point to become the NIL employers, there's plenty of precedent for requiring the student-athletes to remain students even while employed.

Justice Kavanaugh, who ripped the NCAA for not "paying its workers" in Alston, probably didn't get it wrong.... or at least none of the other 8 Justices took issue with his characterization of the athletes. Their opinion matters.

Your wife, doubtlessly, like lots of grad students was cheap labor for the school, teaching undergrad classes MUCH cheaper than a professor in return for grad school acceptance, often.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Justice Kavanaugh, who ripped the NCAA for not "paying its workers" in Alston, probably didn't get it wrong.... or at least none of the other 8 Justices took issue with his characterization of the athletes. Their opinion matters.

Your wife, doubtlessly, like lots of grad students was cheap labor for the school, teaching undergrad classes MUCH cheaper than a professor in return for grad school acceptance, often.

Easy enough to prove, if you really believe this.

Find one, just one single employment contract between a student-athlete and his or her university. One that includes any kiind of athletic performance as a requirement.

I'll wait.

Go Vols!


p.s. Your response to the example involving my wife totally missed the context. It wasn't about my wife, or how good a deal she might have gotten. It was proof that the model already exists for universities to employ people and still require them to remain students in good standing. Not that it will ever come to that, I don't think. NIL co-ops, not universities, are going to be the contract holders for student athletes, for decades to come. Think that model is here to stay.

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

Easy enough to prove, if you really believe this.

Find one, just one single employment contract between a student-athlete and his or her university. One that includes any kiind of athletic performance as a requirement.

I'll wait.

Go Vols!


p.s. Your response to the example involving my wife totally missed the context. It wasn't about my wife, or how good a deal she might have gotten. It was proof that the model already exists for universities to employ people and still require them to remain students in good standing. Not that it will ever come to that, I don't think. NIL co-ops, not universities, are going to be the contract holders for student athletes, for decades to come. Think that model is here to stay.

So now we can look for graduate assistants to unionize and maybe conduct job actions and strikes?

 

[turbovol]

In that case, college sports ended, oh, let's see, football was first played by a college in 1869? So probably somewhere around 1870, college sports ended by your viewpoint.*

This is not a logical way to look at it.

College players have been getting paid to play for decades upon decades. It's still college football. And still will be, decades from now when NIL is old hat, standard, normal.

Here's a more accurate description of the "end of college sports." When the players no longer have to be students, attend classes, keep themselves in good academic standing. When being a student is no longer a requirement for being an athlete of the university's teams, THEN college sports will have ended.

And I don't foresee that day coming for...well, ever.

Go Vols!




* being facetious. It probably actually took until somewhere around 1910 or 1920. Heh.

Get real: In the past only the stars were getting money--maybe a car--maybe--or some walking around money. I'd venture that even the stars weren't pocketing all that much. And the vast majority of the players were getting nothing. And this you miss: Those few players who were getting a bit of under-table money were already established SEC players. They weren't high-school kids who haven 't proved they can cut it in major-college football--and many won't. And the NIL money that some of the players have gotten--including our own QB---is stupid. If college football is about who can buy the best team, count me out as a fan--it's total BS. This all got started by activists who are always looking for free cash and pushed a bunch of nonsense about the players being exploited. Total nonsense. There's nothing exploitative about getting a free education--UNLESS you don't really value an education, which is certainly part of this as well. I confess I don't understand the judges who suddenly seem to view college athletic departments as conventional businesses--which isn't even remotely the case. Totally different. The schools were stupid to inject NIL into recruiting--but this is the problem: All the majors and the fans are all so stupid crazy and hyper-competitive that they can't help themselves. The schools don't give a damn--it's not their money. It's all the fans and pot-bellied boosters whose self-esteem seems to rise and fall base on the fortunes of the state football team--and most of them didn't even graduate from the school. Go figure.

Basically, we seem to be headed to pro football but with the veneer of college. Kids driving Mercedes to their oh-so-tough Kinesiology class! Most of them will have a good laugh about the money these crazy people ponied up later in life.

 

[turbovol]

Mars is an idiot. It's easy to slam the NCAA---and if it disappears, and I frankly don't think it will since it's a member organization (the schools ARE the NCAA)---whatever governing body follows will have the same problems trying to keep a lid on all the madness and cheating. Oh, there will be regulations, and there will be cheating, and schools complaining about other schools, and fans will still get hot and bothered and indignant high if their school runs afoul of regulations, and the new regulatory body will understand all the bull$hit the NCAA has had to deal with.

 

[GoodTimeVol]

Mars is an idiot. It's easy to slam the NCAA---and if it disappears, and I frankly don't think it will since it's a member organization (the schools ARE the NCAA)---whatever governing body follows will have the same problems trying to keep a lid on all the madness and cheating. Oh, there will be regulations, and there will be cheating, and schools complaining about other schools, and fans will still get hot and bothered and indignant high if their school runs afoul of regulations, and the new regulatory body will understand all the bull$hit the NCAA has had to deal with.

If you needed a good laugh in the evening this is great post for that

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

Mars is an idiot. It's easy to slam the NCAA---and if it disappears, and I frankly don't think it will since it's a member organization (the schools ARE the NCAA)---whatever governing body follows will have the same problems trying to keep a lid on all the madness and cheating. Oh, there will be regulations, and there will be cheating, and schools complaining about other schools, and fans will still get hot and bothered and indignant high if their school runs afoul of regulations, and the new regulatory body will understand all the bull$hit the NCAA has had to deal with.

What is your position on the NCAA board. You think the NCAA is so perfect. Now instead of tackling the big problems they are making rules banning universities from putting chips,soft drinks and bottled water in recruits or parents if recruits rooms. Yes this was such a dramatic recruiting advantage, the potato chips and soft drinks are really helping recruits decide on schools. You just love you some NCAA, if you don’t work there you would fit right in.

 

[cgrish]

Hey,, Bama was being Bama long before Nick. He just refined the system, with the the help of many others inside and outside the program. However, if you want to correct the wrongs of anything ask a reformed master of the shortfalls of the system being questioned. I still say he is discussed with the state of the leadership of college sports.

Oh, I'm not saying he won't be discussed or even get the job. I just think he would be very unfair. And Bama has been paying players under the table before Saban. Way back Joe Namath even admitted it. I am just saying Saban wants it to be the way it was, no nil for recruiting purposes, and under the table money.

 

[DaddyChad]

Mars is an idiot. It's easy to slam the NCAA---and if it disappears, and I frankly don't think it will since it's a member organization (the schools ARE the NCAA)---whatever governing body follows will have the same problems trying to keep a lid on all the madness and cheating. Oh, there will be regulations, and there will be cheating, and schools complaining about other schools, and fans will still get hot and bothered and indignant high if their school runs afoul of regulations, and the new regulatory body will understand all the bull$hit the NCAA has had to deal with.

I’m pretty sure Tom Mars is many things, an idiot isn’t one of them. You ever think maybe just maybe you don’t understand what you’re talking about?

 

[Woodlawn VOL]

Way back before pro football paid much money at all College was the thing. Many admitted they made more from money handshakes than what the nfl paid. I think once NIL gets going you are going to start hearing about all the under the table money some players have received. And they all weren’t just 100 dollar handshakes, some were much bigger. It will come out in time. GBO

 

[onthehill71]

It would be interesting to see the actual cost to member institutions of maintaining the huge bureaucracy that is the NCAA. These people are a big roadblock to establishing any new governing body. Take the money from the existing payroll and use it to help fund non-revenue sports.

 

[GoVols64]

The NCAA forget it is a member led organization. If you bite the hand that feeds you don't expect many meals going forward. In fact, your odds of being put down go up exponentially. Time for the NCAA to take the long nap....

 

[S.C. OrangeMan]

It would be interesting to see the actual cost to member institutions of maintaining the huge bureaucracy that is the NCAA. These people are a big roadblock to establishing any new governing body. Take the money from the existing payroll and use it to help fund non-revenue sports.

They aren't a big roadblock any more. All it takes is the conference withdrawing from them and voila, we save money and stop the silliness, nitpicking, and bias.

 

[Mightyvol]

What the NCAA charter was for, doesn’t exist anymore, and it appears they either won’t or can’t adjust their mission or power to fit today’s world of college athletics. Which is about as amateur as the old USSR hockey teams. So IMHO, get rid of them because they, the ones who make a living being the NCAA, will be an obstacle to creating a structure or organization to manage and enforce what the conferences create.