Top 25 and Heisman 5 for 10/5/08

#51
#51
ThatVolGuy said:
When I see things like "Missouri is not that good" and "they only have two dynamic players," brilliance isn't even necessary.

Then don't pretend that you deserve brilliance in return. The onus is on nobody here to prove that Missouri is pathetic. They have beaten no team of any merit whatsoever. Until they do, you are just as dead wrong as anyone else posting here. Congrats.


They're probably not as good as the ranking suggests, and that's because they haven't started the meat of their schedule yet. I'm fully aware of that.

I'm not going to dismiss them completely, however. That appears to be more your style, so have at it.

you're not dismissing them completely because it might hurt your Missouri argument later. I'm dismissing them because I've watched their defense play twice and it's atrocious.


Oh, so now you can discern what I'm thinking before I've even said it? That's pretty impressive. Would you like to fabricate the rest of this discussion yourself? It would save me a lot of time.

What a joke.

Pure genius. I didn't read your mind so I'm a joke. How about this? Prove I didn't read your mind. How do I know you weren't thinking OSU is solid just to bolster your MO homerism? You can't freaking prove it since there is no other reason at all for thinking OSU can play with a good football team.

You're a joke.


Prove that I've said Missouri is great.
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You've jumped in everyone's ass here who has tried to say that Missouri is only a product of a very weak schedule. Call it greatness or whatever you'd like, but you're certainly implying that they are the 2nd best team in the country, which is patently ridiculous. They might have one NFL defender on the field at any given time.
 
#52
#52
BigPapaVol said:
You've jumped in everyone's ass here who has tried to say that Missouri is only a product of a very weak schedule. Call it greatness or whatever you'd like, but you're certainly implying that they are the 2nd best team in the country, which is patently ridiculous. They might have one NFL defender on the field at any given time.
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Disagreeing with the prevailing opinion of a few folks in this thread ("Missouri is not that good") doesn't equate to implying that they're the second-best team in the country - that's an interesting chain of logic there. I don't necessarily believe they're on the fast track to the national title game, but I do believe that many here are overstating their weaknesses. I certainly don't think their presence in the top tier of football teams these past few years is a fluke.

Then don't pretend that you deserve brilliance in return. The onus is on nobody here to prove that Missouri is pathetic. They have beaten no team of any merit whatsoever. Until they do, you are just as dead wrong as anyone else posting here. Congrats.
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More with the exaggeration, I see. "Pathetic," "no team of any merit whatsoever," "dead wrong," etc. Such anger.

Which "team of any merit" has Oklahoma beaten so far?

you're not dismissing them completely because it might hurt your Missouri argument later. I'm dismissing them because I've watched their defense play twice and it's atrocious.
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I fully expect Missouri to win handily. If they don't and I end up being wrong, then I'm wrong. I'm not trying to paint Missouri as an infallible juggernaut here, so quit assuming that I've got some ulterior motive when I say that OK St. should provide an interesting game. I've never been one for overstating my team's chances, regardless of how confident I am. I leave that to people like you. Spin that however you want to.

Pure genius. I didn't read your mind so I'm a joke. How about this? Prove I didn't read your mind. How do I know you weren't thinking OSU is solid just to bolster your MO homerism? You can't freaking prove it since there is no other reason at all for thinking OSU can play with a good football team.
Click to expand...

:) "Can't freaking prove it." I can just see you banging out the letters on your keyboard. Try not to break anything, my friend.

You think you can read my mind, and I simply think it's not necessary to be an arrogant, overconfident jackoff when your team is playing well. Let's call it a difference of opinion.

You're a joke.
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Well, I'm doing a lot of laughing - that's for sure.
 
#53
#53
you massively overstate how I view these conversations on a message board.

levelheadedness doesn't work. Hyperbole is the order of the day. You'll eventually understand that.

Your analysis of Missouri as a top tier football team is dead wrong either way.
 
#54
#54
ThatVolGuy said:
Indeed we will. I think Oklahoma State will be a good challenge, considering both teams are firing on all cylinders offensively.
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If Missouri has any troubles with OSU whatsoever, then the Tigers will really need to reevaluate where they are as a program and a contender in the Big 12 year.
 
#60
#60
Actually I don't look at Missouri with the contempt that I have when I look at Kansas.
 
#61
#61
ThatVolGuy said:
:) Looks like I've built up some animosity for Missouri on this board.
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It's not animosity. It's third party opinion, which is likely more objective than your own.

I doubt anyone here has a vendetta against Missouri or any agenda in saying they're overrated.

I think if they play a good football team and their defense doesn't get them beat, some eyebrows will rise and you'll hear a different tune. Until then, they're this year's version of KU.
 
#63
#63
BigPapaVol said:
It's not animosity. It's third party opinion, which is likely more objective than your own.
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I'm not proclaiming Missouri to be the best team in the country, though - I just think saying they're "not that good" is being a bit harsh.

It'd be interesting to see how much Missouri football the folks here have actually watched over the past two seasons.

I think if they play a good football team and their defense doesn't get them beat, some eyebrows will rise and you'll hear a different tune. Until then, they're this year's version of KU.
Click to expand...

We'll see how things shake out.
 
#69
#69
Hey guys, Mizzou fan here. Nice board! I thought maybe you'd like the perspective of someone who watches Mizzou regularly. It seems like there are 3 points which you judge Missouri by, and I'd like to address them.

#1 Talent
Obviously Daniel and Maclin are dangerous, but we have a lot of great players. Our running back Derrick Washington is second in the Big 12 in rushing and leads the nation in scoring. We lost two receivers to the NFL last year, but we still have probably the deepest corps in the nation. Our 4th leading receiver was a freshman all american and our 6th leading receiver is a certain draft pick. We also have some talent on defense. In fact, we led the Big 12 by a large margin in all conference honors last year.

My point is, we're more than Daniel and Maclin. We'll still be a good team when they leave next year.

#2 Defense
Our defense has rightfully been skewered. 115th in the nation in pass yardage isn't good. However, I will make the argument that we're a lot better than our statistics.
First, we led the Big 12 in total defense last year in conference play. Yes, that was last year, but we also return 10 of those 11 starters, so you know they're capable. We held Texas Tech to 10 points last year and Arkansas to 7.

Second, teams have to pass against us, partially because we have such big leads, and partially because they have no other choice. We are very strong against the run, 15th in the nation actually. So teams have to pass on us, leading to big yardage. If you look at pass efficiency defense, we're much higher, about middle of the pack.

Third, our numbers are getting better. We experimented a lot in the first few games because we knew we had a lot of experience returning, and we learned a lot from our mistakes. We also had huge breakdowns against Illinois (and some since) that are very coachable. Most of that game they were shut down and we just had a number long passes with defensive breakdowns. It's not like we can't cover anyone. Remember, our starters held Nebraska to 2.2 yards per carry and 10 total points. Nobody slams Virginia Tech's defense, yet they gave up 30 to NU.

#3 Schedule
It's hard to argue the schedule, but I would ask what's the point? Mizzou is clearly a top 10 team in my mind and the minds of the analysts and sportswriters around the country. We've beaten all but 1 team for the last 2 years. We beat two BCS bowl teams last year. If you don't respect Kansas or Texas Tech or Illinois, then there's not much I'll do to convince you, other than to say how many great teams have gotten respect by consistently beating the good teams on their schedule, even if they didn't play great ones? Beating 3 and 4 loss teams consistently is pretty good.

I'll leave you with this. Whether or not you think OSU is any good this year, it looks like their offense is the real deal. Few would argue with that. If our defense steps up and holds them under 25, with our offense, I think that's a championship contender, and easily top 10.

BTW, go Vols! I was raised in Missouri but I'm a native son of Tennessee.
 
#70
#70
Well word traveled to Missouri we were being bashed lol. Let me set the record straight.
The Missouri Tigers have won 5 of the last 7 games vs. top 25 teams, we havent had a three and out all year, we havent punted in three games, we average 53.5 points per game with our starters having only played full games in one game thus far as we called off the dogs, our average time of possession is 1:53 and we have scored on something like 30 of 45 drives (not exact number but pretty close). Do the math and our defense is on the field most of the game and we dont give up many points. As far as not playing anyone our schedule is set like everyone elses. Before we went into conf play we played one top 25 team and lit them up (Illinois) and three warm ups before entering conf play much like everyone else does. Our last two bowl games have been wins vs. SEC schools: Cotton Bowl last year beating Arkansas 38-7 and beating SC the previous year. We have two Heisman candidates and the one you dont hear about is Jeremy Maclin whom we cannot afford to lose. Chase gets all of the attn which he deserves and is phenomenal but Maclin is the key to our team. We are very proud of our team and are more that qualified for being number two in the country. Thanks for listening and good luck to the Vols.
 
#71
#71
I've never meant to bash Missouri. In fact, I like watching the Tigers play.

I was just trying to make a point that until they defeat a top notch team and prove their team is capable of playing defense I'll still be skeptical.
 
#72
#72
No offense taken just understand we have proven ourselves. Talking about our defense is a crock that Dr. Lou likes to talk about. Our defense is our weakness but its more than capable of carrying us if it comes down to it in a game. We made a lot of adjustments after the Illinois game and you have to look at Illinois and what they did to other teams since. They have a nice offense. Anyway, we are more than legit and it will play out and you will see. Beating the last three SEC teams we have played should help that cause as well. Two in bowl games (AR and SC) and one on our schedule (Ole Miss). No offense taken at all just let your eyes tell you and dont listen to Dr. Lou and May as they are lost. May called us the third best offense in the Big 12 which is insane. Wish the Vols the best of luck:)
 
#73
#73
Lou Holtz and Mark May are acting like after today Sam Bradshaw is out of the Heisman race and Colt McCoy is the new leader. Not really seeing how that happens. Bradshaw was 99.8% of OU's offense (387 yards, 5 TDs). They're also saying how Colt's numbers are favorable to Vince Young's (who didn't win the Heisman anyway) but they only list passing stats, completing ignoring Vince's rushing.
 
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