Top 5 all-time QBs (SIAP)

#226
#226
Again if you trade Montana with Marino he probably has the bigger stats and less rings, while Marino has less stats and more rings. The same way with PM and Brady. The question then becomes do you change your argument from Manning being the GOAT to Brady being the GOAT. I'm guessing the argument for Manning changes to rings.

My criteria is always the same for every sport. Stats play a part, winning plays a part, big game performances play a part, for both regular season and playoffs. It's why MJ is the GOAT in basketball, and Montana is my GOAT at QB.
 
#227
#227
BadJerry20 said:
Again if you trade Montana with Marino he probably has the bigger stats and less rings, while Marino has less stats and more rings. The same way with PM and Brady. The question then becomes do you change your argument from Manning being the GOAT to Brady being the GOAT. I'm guessing the argument for Manning changes to rings.

My criteria is always the same for every sport. Stats play a part, winning plays a part, big game performances play a part, for both regular season and playoffs. It's why MJ is the GOAT in basketball, and Montana is my GOAT at QB.
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This is where I am. I don't try to justify any single individual as the greatest. I think there are levels of ability and at the highest level the parts are interchangeable. You could take any of the top ten QBs and switch their places and the stats would stay with the team, not move with the QB.

That said, I have been watching football since 1965 and I fell in love with John Unitas back then as my childhood football "hero". But, if I got to pick the QB to win the game of all-time I would pick Roger Staubach. If he couldn't make it then I would pick John Elway. Those two embodied "failure is not an option" better than any other QBs I watched during these past 50 years.
 
#228
#228
Bringing up Unitas and Staubach raises another interesting question. The ages of pro Montana, Manning, Favre, Unitas guys. I think that might factor in as well. I personally can't argue for or against Unitas or Roger, cause I didn't watch them, aside from old game footage. I bring it up because I notice age being a factor when the LBJ vs MJ debate comes up. Unless you watched someone on a regular basis it's hard to fully judge them. IMO
 
#229
#229
I have seen about every qb mentioned in this thread in my time. They were all really good, but played on different teams, and /or different eras. Change the teams backing them up. Change the offensive philosophies..... who knows?
 
#230
#230
2000s: Peyton Manning / Tom Brady
1990s: Steve Young / Brett Farve
1980s: Joe Montana / Dan Marino

Honorable mentions: Dan Fouts, Troy Aikman, John Elway, & Don "The Majik Man" Majikowski.

Can't really speak for anyone in the 70s or before besides Tarkenton / Staubach / Unitas / Namath. Great QBs but no reference for me to judge them by. If I had to rank the QBs:

1a. Peyton Manning
1b. Joe Montana
3a Steve Young
3b. Tom Brady
5. Dan Marino
 
#232
#232
BadJerry20 said:
Bringing up Unitas and Staubach raises another interesting question. The ages of pro Montana, Manning, Favre, Unitas guys. I think that might factor in as well. I personally can't argue for or against Unitas or Roger, cause I didn't watch them, aside from old game footage. I bring it up because I notice age being a factor when the LBJ vs MJ debate comes up. Unless you watched someone on a regular basis it's hard to fully judge them. IMO
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Excellent point. For those of us who are old enough to have watched him, it can also be argued that Wilt Chamberlain dominated the NBA more thoroughly than Michael Jordan or LeBron James. Sports evolve, the physiques and skill sets of athletes change over time as well. The one constant for me is to what degree did the achievements of player X tower over those of his contemporaries. It is the only way to make pseudo-meaningful comparisons between players who competed in fundamentally different eras.
 
#233
#233
Volosaurus rex said:
Excellent point. For those of us who are old enough to have watched him, it can also be argued that Wilt Chamberlain dominated the NBA more thoroughly than Michael Jordan or LeBron James. Sports evolve, the physiques and skill sets of athletes change over time as well. The one constant for me is to what degree did the achievements of player X tower over those of his contemporaries. It is the only way to make pseudo-meaningful comparisons between players who competed in fundamentally different eras.
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Wilt was often very dominant. I remember seeing many games when the 76ers played the Celtics, and Wilt and Bill Russell had epic battles.

Nicklaus was as dominant and feared as Tiger was. I will admit that Tiger in 2000 was the most dominating year that I have ever seen in golf, but I didn't see Byron Nelson in 1946, or whenever he won 11 straight. The fields were weaker of course, but for a pro to beat all comers 11 in a row was incredible. You would think that either he would be a little off, or that somebody would have a hot week.
 
#234
#234
Few records in sports are unassailable, but I believe that Wilt's 100-point performance on March 2, 1962 (Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) just may stand the test of time. Wilt hit 36-63 from the field and 28-32 from the charity stripe in that game, while amassing 25 rebounds as well. The closest anyone has come to challenging that record was Kobe Bryant's performance against the Raptors in 2006, when he scored 81.
 
#235
#235
bnhunt said:
We were having this discussion at work. Assuming Peyton wins another SB, I think it will be hard not to put him at the top. Here's my list RIGHT NOW:

1. Favre
2. Unitas
3. Manning
4. Montana
5. Marino

Also considered: Elway, Bradshaw, Brady, Moon, Tarkenton, etc.

Thoughts?
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No Bart Starr,5 time NFL champion won the first two super bowls and was mvp of both. Only downside is he is a bammer,but was there before the bear.
 
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#237
#237
UT_Dutchman said:
No Bart Starr,5 time NFL champion won the first two super bowls and was mvp of both. Only downside is he is a bammer,but was there before the bear.
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Bart Starr was a Bammer. He sucks. Packer sweep left. Packer sweep right.
 
#239
#239
1972 Grad said:
You seem to have forgotten passes to Carroll Dale, Boyd Dowler, and Max McGee.
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My simple formula

Bart Starr = Bammer = not eligible for the list
Joe Namath = Bammer = not eligible for the list
Ken Stabler = Bammer = not eligible for the list
 
#240
#240
Volosaurus rex said:
Few records in sports are unassailable, but I believe that Wilt's 100-point performance on March 2, 1962 (Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) just may stand the test of time. Wilt hit 36-63 from the field and 28-32 from the charity stripe in that game, while amassing 25 rebounds as well. The closest anyone has come to challenging that record was Kobe Bryant's performance against the Raptors in 2006, when he scored 81.
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In all honesty stats only matter in baseball. Baseball really is the same with the exception of PED's and specialty relievers.
 
#241
#241
crusse10 said:
Gunslingers throw interceptions, but they also throw highlights. He's 4th on the list of game-winning drives.

Also leader in TDs and yards.

Oh, and Peyton had a hall-of-famer catching passes for almost his entire career. Favre never had that. Peyton also had a killer O-Line, while Favre is the all-time leader in getting sacked.

(Favre was sacked 255 more times than Peyton. In my opinion, that shows just how incredible his streak of starts is)
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Ok, I've had enough of you. This suckathon to Favre is comical. The guy was a very good QB...and a douschebag. Enjoy rooting for his wrangler commercials.
 
#242
#242
Volosaurus rex said:
Few records in sports are unassailable, but I believe that Wilt's 100-point performance on March 2, 1962 (Wilt Chamberlain's 100-point game - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) just may stand the test of time. Wilt hit 36-63 from the field and 28-32 from the charity stripe in that game, while amassing 25 rebounds as well. The closest anyone has come to challenging that record was Kobe Bryant's performance against the Raptors in 2006, when he scored 81.
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Wilt has a ton of records that will never be touched. Most 30, 40, 50, 60 pt games in a season and career, season scoring average ect. I listed everything he holds in another debate, they are pretty staggering and almost unbelievable. He even led the league in total asts one year because people said he shot too much. Had they kept them back then his a Russells blocks would have been ridiculous too.
 
#243
#243
crusse10 said:
This was a guy who had a serious drug issue who fought threw it to become the best of all time, by the stats. Had he had a better offensive line, he'd have even better stats. In all his years in Green Bay, he had linemen selected to the Pro Bowl 5 times, and 3 of those were Marco Rivera. To do what he did without ever having an elite offensive lineman, and to stay healthy for so long, is what makes him one of the greatest of all time.

He was sacked 525 times. Peyton has been sacked 270 times. The Offensive Line makes a HUGE impact.
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My god, you are such an idiot. The O-line is not the only reason QB's make mistakes. It's also because they hold the ball too long and make terrible decisions. Both of which Favre did continuously.

How does being a "gunslinger" help you win? It means he threw the ball up for grabs WAY too much. It's also why he has so damn many interceptions.

As for his records? He also played much longer in the modern era than anyone else. I'll give him credit for being tough and hanging in there. I won't give him credit for the records like he destroyed everyone else. Manning has much better season by season stats.

Now, as for this argument...game, set, match. Your opinion is all fail. Step away from the cliff and go buy some more Wranglers and suck up to the pervert who sends pics of his Johnson to a therapist!
 
#244
#244
crusse10 said:
Gunslingers throw interceptions, but they also throw highlights. He's 4th on the list of game-winning drives.

Also leader in TDs and yards.

Oh, and Peyton had a hall-of-famer catching passes for almost his entire career. Favre never had that. Peyton also had a killer O-Line, while Favre is the all-time leader in getting sacked.

(Favre was sacked 255 more times than Peyton. In my opinion, that shows just how incredible his streak of starts is)
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Sterling Sharpe is better than any receiver Manning has every had. Freeman is probably better than Wayne or Harrison as well.
 
#245
#245
UTandUNC said:
My god, you are such an idiot. The O-line is not the only reason QB's make mistakes. It's also because they hold the ball too long and make terrible decisions. Both of which Favre did continuously.

How does being a "gunslinger" help you win? It means he threw the ball up for grabs WAY too much. It's also why he has so damn many interceptions.

As for his records? He also played much longer in the modern era than anyone else. I'll give him credit for being tough and hanging in there. I won't give him credit for the records like he destroyed everyone else. Manning has much better season by season stats.

Now, as for this argument...game, set, match. Your opinion is all fail. Step away from the cliff and go buy some more Wranglers and suck up to the pervert who sends pics of his Johnson to a therapist!
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Real. Comfortable. Jeans.

Favre in the late 90's was the best player in football. Isn't he second to Manning in MVP awards? He also took photos of his junk.
 
#250
#250
thebjd said:
Just don't use a company provided phone and you're good. For some reason that is frowned upon. 15? You are casting a wide net.
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No worries the company secretary took the pic. I only send it to the girls that say they don't want one.
 
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