Transfer Portal Thread

[zjcvols]

Barnes has emphasized defense for 6 years. Adjusted tempo does not factor that into the equation.

Put the defensive stats side-by-side with the adjusted tempo nonsense.

Straight from kenpom: Adjusted tempo- An estimate of the tempo (possessions per 40 minutes) a team would have against the team that wants to play at an average D-I tempo.

You keep making the argument for us. Barnes would rather play good, solid defense and rebound the ball than play with a consistent, fast pace. He is choosing to not push the ball in favor of a more half court defensive game. You’ve said that yourself. Hence why we continuously rank lower in tempo and possessions per game.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Bold #1: “I’d rather play tough halfcourt defense and rebound then try and leak guys to push the pace.”

Bold #2: “I’d rather slow the pace and work through Grant Williams than try and push the pace.”

Bold #3: “I’d rather slow the game down and focus on defense than push the pace and try to create fast break point.”

You’re missing the entire point of the argument. We aren’t arguing whether the strategy if effective or not. We are talking about whether Tennessee game plans to push the pace and the evidence says that we don’t.

Pushing the pace isn’t defined by the number of possessions. Defensive effort skews that stat.

Bone pushed the pace. He wasn’t always that effective at finishing at the rim.

Last year the PGs were shooting guards and forwards. That will result in lots of turnovers and few fast break opportunities.

Chandler and BJ will push the pace. But TN won’t stop playing defense therefore the stat that is creating lots of angst won’t be the bestest in the country. But I’ll predict that the winning percentage will be at a higher percentile.

 

[zjcvols]

Pushing the pace isn’t defined by the number of possessions. Defensive effort skews that stat.

Bone pushed the pace. He wasn’t always that effective at finishing at the rim.

Last year the PGs were shooting guards and forwards. That will result in lots of turnovers and few fast break opportunities.

Chandler and BJ will push the pace. But TN won’t stop playing defense therefore the stat that is creating lots of angst won’t be the bestest in the country. But I’ll predict that the winning percentage will be at a higher percentile.

Bringing the ball up a little bit faster and deliberating going into your halfcourt set isn’t pushing the pace. Pushing the pace is a deliberate attempt to get more possessions in a basketball game which Tennessee doesn’t do.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

View attachment 379017
Straight from kenpom: Adjusted tempo- An estimate of the tempo (possessions per 40 minutes) a team would have against the team that wants to play at an average D-I tempo.

You keep making the argument for us. Barnes would rather play good, solid defense and rebound the ball than play with a consistent, fast pace. He is choosing to not push the ball in favor of a more half court defensive game. You’ve said that yourself. Hence why we continuously rank lower in tempo and possessions per game.

A fast pace is determined per possession. Bone ran a fast pace when it was there. Chandler will go fast when it is there. So will BJ.

My eyes tell me that TN is not deliberately ignoring fast break opportunities. There just have not been as many minus a PG and also when your personnel better fits pounding the ball inside (Grant), that is what you exploit.

The stat is flawing because it does not account for playing a full 30 seconds of defense.

 

[zjcvols]

BTW you can still play a fast, uptempo style and be good at defense. You don’t have to be one or the other. Gonzaga, Arkansas, Oklahoma State and Alabama all were top 25 in adjusted tempo and top 17 in defensive efficiency.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Bringing the ball up a little bit faster and deliberating going into your halfcourt set isn’t pushing the pace. Pushing the pace is a deliberate attempt to get more possessions in a basketball game which Tennessee doesn’t do.

Possessions per game are pretty much equal for TN and their opponents.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

BTW you can still play a fast, uptempo style and be good at defense. You don’t have to be one or the other. Gonzaga, Arkansas, Oklahoma State and Alabama all were top 25 in adjusted tempo and top 17 in defensive efficiency.

TN plays uptempo when the roster allows it. Bone and Chandler fit the philosophy. Keon, Vescovi, JJJ, and Springer at the PG spot did not.

 

[zjcvols]

A fast pace is determined per possession. Bone ran a fast pace when it was there. Chandler will go fast when it is there. So will BJ.

My eyes tell me that TN is not deliberately ignoring fast break opportunities. There just have not been as many minus a PG and also when your personnel better fits pounding the ball inside (Grant), that is what you exploit.

The stat is flawing because it does not account for playing a full 30 seconds of defense.

It actually does because it’s adjusted to average tempo as stated in the definition. So if a team is deliberately trying to use the full 30 seconds OR Tennessee is somehow forcing a bunch of shot clock violation that takes it into account because it adjusted for that. It literally is taking into account how many possessions per 40 minutes you specifically run.

 

[zjcvols]

TN plays uptempo when the roster allows it. Bone and Chandler fit the philosophy. Keon, Vescovi, JJJ, and Springer at the PG spot did not.

Do tell…who controls the roster at The University of Tennessee?

 

[zjcvols]

Here is a good article explaining adjusted tempo

Adjusted Efficiency

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

It actually does because it’s adjusted to average tempo as stated in the definition. So if a team is deliberately trying to use the full 30 seconds OR Tennessee is somehow forcing a bunch of shot clock violation that takes it into account because it adjusted for that. It literally is taking into account how many possessions per 40 minutes you specifically run.

It’s flawed, useless stat. All it does is put the defensive effort of your opponents on a scale. Both teams play 30-seconds of high effort defense and the rating is low. An opponent neglecting defense and running on every possession creates more possessions for both.

Offensive and defensive scoring efficiency, shooting percentages, turnover ratios, and rebounding are far superior measures. Controlling and adapting to the pace is far more important than simply accelerating it anyway.

 

[Vol49er]

It’s flawed, useless stat. All it does is put the defensive effort of your opponents on a scale. Both teams play 30-seconds of high effort defense and the rating is low. An opponent neglecting defense and running on every possession creates more possessions for both.

Offensive and defensive scoring efficiency, shooting percentages, turnover ratios, and rebounding are far superior measures. Controlling and adapting to the pace is far more important than simply accelerating it anyway.

I mean certainly they are for determining how good a team is, but you’re changing the parameters often, TGO. The issue at hand was specifically if UT pushes the tempo under Barnes consistently and we clearly don’t. Doesn’t mean he sucks or anything

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Do tell…who controls the roster at The University of Tennessee?

Bone has been the best PG to run an uptempo offense. His career overlapped with a 2x SEC POY that was most effective in the paint. Dumping the ball in to Grant trumps a fast, skinny guy racing to the rim. But Bone still took it coast-to-coast when it was available.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I mean certainly they are for determining how good a team is, but you’re changing the parameters often, TGO. The issue at hand was specifically if UT pushes the tempo under Barnes consistently and we clearly don’t. Doesn’t mean he sucks or anything

You said:

January (conference play starts)
Rick: “Well we need to get good shots and rely on halfcourt offense.”
—————————————————————
Once conference play begins EVERY opponent plays high level defense. Therefore the number of possessions per game will drop.

 

[zjcvols]

Bone has been the best PG to run an uptempo offense. His career overlapped with a 2x SEC POY that was most effective in the paint. Dumping the ball in to Grant trumps a fast, skinny guy racing to the rim. But Bone still took it coast-to-coast when it was available.

So what you’re saying is Tennessee purposefully wanted to run a halfcourt offense to get Grant the ball instead of Jordan Bone going full court and trying to get up shots quicker?

I feel like I’m purposefully getting trolled right now.

 

[zjcvols]

I mean certainly they are for determining how good a team is, but you’re changing the parameters often, TGO. The issue at hand was specifically if UT pushes the tempo under Barnes consistently and we clearly don’t. Doesn’t mean he sucks or anything

It’s unbelievable how something so simple is getting so over complicated lol

 

[VolFreakJosh]

It’s unbelievable how something so simple is getting so over complicated lol

I remember Barnes specifically last year, saying he wanted his guys to play fast.

However, we didn’t have a primary ball handler to make plays for his teammates because that’s not who SV is.

Opposing teams forced Keon & Springer to make plays because we were not a threat at PG which is why we couldn’t play fast like Barnes wanted too.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

@zjcvols what were tempo rankings each of Barnes years at Tennessee? Comparative to last 5 at Texas?

 

[zjcvols]

@zjcvols what were tempo rankings each of Barnes years at Tennessee? Comparative to last 5 at Texas?

Last five at Texas
161
176
173
70
290

Last five at Tennessee
100
282
164
313
232

 

[Vols8086]

It’s unbelievable how something so simple is getting so over complicated lol

It always gets this way any time something is brought up that isn't a sparkling review about Barnes.

This isn't even a dig at him, yet the Barnes Crusaders are still hear to spread to good word.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

So what you’re saying is Tennessee purposefully wanted to run a halfcourt offense to get Grant the ball instead of Jordan Bone going full court and trying to get up shots quicker?

I feel like I’m purposefully getting trolled right now.

It isn’t one or the other as the preference. Uncontested layups would be very high up on CRB’s choices.

I’m saying TN took the easy, quick basket with Bone when it was there. Bone had the speed to create the opportunities but he wasn’t consistent at all finishing at the rim until late in his career. Even then he was probably more effective hitting jump shots when Grant was drawing attention in the paint.

I believe that the original disagreement erupted when one poster said that Barnes would like to push the pace. Then an argument began citing an obscure stat that he PREFERRED to go with the half court offense.

I don’t believe that Barnes is married to running a half court offense. He knows what is most effective given any specific situation. He always chooses high effort defense and minimizing turnovers. He’ll take what works best while considering all of the variables. He’ll push the offensive pace with excellent PGs. He doesn’t want bad shot attempts no matter how quickly they are available. Even with Chandler and BJ the number of possessions aren’t likely to rank in the top 25% because he will not be abandoning the importance of defense and always playing under control with his philosophy.

 

[zjcvols]

It isn’t one or the other as the preference. Uncontested layups would be very high up on CRB’s choices.

I’m saying TN took the easy, quick basket with Bone when it was there. Bone had the speed to create the opportunities but he wasn’t consistent at all finishing at the rim until late in his career. Even then he was probably more effective hitting jump shots when Grant was drawing attention in the paint.

I believe that the original disagreement erupted when one poster said that Barnes would like to push the pace. Then an argument began citing an obscure stat that he PREFERRED to go with the half court offense.

I don’t believe that Barnes is married to running a half court offense. He knows what is most effective given any specific situation. He always chooses high effort defense and minimizing turnovers. He’ll take what works best while considering all of the variables. He’ll push the offensive pace with excellent PGs. He doesn’t want bad shot attempts no matter how quickly they are available. Even with Chandler and BJ the number of possessions aren’t likely to rank in the top 25% because he will not be abandoning the importance of defense and always playing under control with his philosophy.

The contradiction is so strong in this I can’t believe it was even typed out.

 

[zjcvols]

“I don’t believe Barnes is married to a half court offense but we won’t be running a high number of possessions because he values defense and playing under control.”

SOUNDS LIKE HE PREFERS LIMITING POSSESSIONS TO ME

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

It always gets this way any time something is brought up that isn't a sparkling review about Barnes.

This isn't even a dig at him, yet the Barnes Crusaders are still hear to spread to good word.

Or maybe some don’t agree with the false narratives and post their differing opinions.

For example, is there a link of Barnes saying this?

January (conference play starts)
Rick: “Well we need to get good shots and rely on halfcourt offense.”

I specifically remember Barnes yelling at Bone to push the ball and being demonstratively Bruce-like while wildly gesturing on the sideline.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Last five at Texas
161
176
173
70
290

Last five at Tennessee
100
282
164
313
232

Wild to average 82ppg/#20th nationally while having a tempo that ranks 164…guess you can have an effective offense while not necessarily being uptempo.

I’m guessing we’re closer to that 164 this year than 270 average of last 2 years.