Trump Sues Hillary and DNC

[GVF]

Every Tennessee farmer I've known in the last 50 years has been a part-time farmer. I've baled a lot of hay and straw and cut tobacco, but every one of the guys I was doing it for was doing it after their regular job.

There's not many geographical plots in TN large enough for the scale of farming it would take to be the sole income. We used to have tobacco credits, but my dad let htem go back about 15 years ago or so. It's a shame. We'd let a local grow it under our credits, and take 10% off the top. He paid taxes and insurance for years doing that while we were still in GA. According to him, our TN farm had some of the best tobacco soil around outside of Tobacco Road. My neighbor does cows on hte side. He does pretty decent. Grows hay in a couple of our fields and keeps cows in the bigger ones. We all get farm property tax. That saves me a bundle.

 

[GVF]

Every Tennessee farmer I've known in the last 50 years has been a part-time farmer. I've baled a lot of hay and straw and cut tobacco, but every one of the guys I was doing it for was doing it after their regular job.

I have a home made tool out of what now seems to be petrified wood. Goes back to my dads childhood and his dad. Made out of a roughly 1-1.5" diameter limb fork. Sharpened on one end. one fork used to keep hand from sliding up. They called it a tobacco plug. You'll know what that is. that thing was still around. I'm using it to plant seed in the garden.

 

[hog88]

That would be an agreeable trade-off. But, one shouldn't expect milk any longer for $2.86 a gallon if that were to happen. Dairy farming, as one example, has slim margins and if not on a major scale, is near impossible to turn a profit. If de-subsidised, then yes, remove market restrictions and let let it sort out.

There's no margin in dairy farming, believe me. There is nothing but work and more work.

Dairy is one of the few products where the producer is barred from setting the price for their product, it's not even handled like a true commodity. For everyone complaining about farm subsidies think about this, DFA (Dairy Farmers of America) is the largest dairy farmer co-op in the country. The co-op owns several brands that you would recognize such as Purity and Borden so the member farmers do get earnings from their brands but they still can't set their own prices. No matter how much the cost of doing business increases (it never decreases) the farmers or their co-op can't just up and increase the price of their product like most businesses can.

Here's a decent article on the subject.

How Milk Is Priced in Federal Milk Marketing Orders: A Primer

 

[WoodsmanVol]

No farmer is going to survive with that being their only source of income. And yes it's still legal in most places, my 2 sister in laws run a vegetable stand in the summer.

Was just reminiscing about days gone by. BUT, also thinking if price regulations got out of the way along with subsidies, it might bring back the close customer-farmer relations, probably a return to healthy eating too. Around here, there are two places known to me, where you can buy your locally grass-fed beef and mutton, and uncaged poutry, (we avoid pork) to go along with local produce. The places we get it here is run by the farmers (a coop I imagine), I never asked. I never thought about it until just now, but I've never seen the meat with the USDA stamp on it, also never asked about that either.

 

[VolStrom]

There's no margin in dairy farming, believe me. There is nothing but work and more work.

Dairy is one of the few products where the producer is barred from setting the price for their product, it's not even handled like a true commodity. For everyone complaining about farm subsidies think about this, DFA (Dairy Farmers of America) is the largest dairy farmer co-op in the country. The co-op owns several brands that you would recognize such as Purity and Borden so the member farmers do get earnings from their brands but they still can't set their own prices. No matter how much the cost of doing business increases (it never decreases) the farmers or their co-op can't just up and increase the price of their product like most businesses can.

Here's a decent article on the subject.

How Milk Is Priced in Federal Milk Marketing Orders: A Primer

I had a great uncle that ran a dairy farm years ago. It was the coolest thing to visit when I was a kid. He lived to be nearly a hundred, and I'm sure it was because of his work ethic of milking cows every day for decades.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

There's no margin in dairy farming, believe me. There is nothing but work and more work.

Dairy is one of the few products where the producer is barred from setting the price for their product, it's not even handled like a true commodity. For everyone complaining about farm subsidies think about this, DFA (Dairy Farmers of America) is the largest dairy farmer co-op in the country. The co-op owns several brands that you would recognize such as Purity and Borden so the member farmers do get earnings from their brands but they still can't set their own prices. No matter how much the cost of doing business increases (it never decreases) the farmers or their co-op can't just up and increase the price of their product like most businesses can. Here's a decent article on the subject. How Milk Is Priced in Federal Milk Marketing Orders: A Primer

Not that I doubt you, but my wife goes to a little bitty store called Nutrition Center or something like that. She buys old-fashioned 1qt glass milk bottles of local milk called simply Country Milk, and is from a local farm a few miles from us. It's non-homogenized. I think I remember a truck, with the farm name on it dropping cases of this milk once or twice when I was either with her or in the area.

 

[GVF]

There's no margin in dairy farming, believe me. There is nothing but work and more work.

Dairy is one of the few products where the producer is barred from setting the price for their product, it's not even handled like a true commodity. For everyone complaining about farm subsidies think about this, DFA (Dairy Farmers of America) is the largest dairy farmer co-op in the country. The co-op owns several brands that you would recognize such as Purity and Borden so the member farmers do get earnings from their brands but they still can't set their own prices. No matter how much the cost of doing business increases (it never decreases) the farmers or their co-op can't just up and increase the price of their product like most businesses can.

Here's a decent article on the subject.

How Milk Is Priced in Federal Milk Marketing Orders: A Primer

That's why I referred to dairy. I knew it was more restrictive, but I'm also not an expert in Ag markets and federal regualtions. Ag is an industry I don't consider bailouts or subsidies as socialist. Most of it is market controlled to some degree and forced upon them federally. Most meat farmers can turn good profits if they know what they're doing. My brother-in-law has 6 chicken houses in GA. They've been paid off a few years now and they bank about $90K per batch. 4-5 times a year. They are pretty much in millionaire zone now, and their houses are only about 10 years old. If you already own your land outright, chicken houses can be very lucrative. And if you work a full time job until the houses are paid off, then you are set for life. If you are not a free spender anyway.

 

[hog88]

That's why I referred to dairy. I knew it was more restrictive, but I'm also not an expert in Ag markets and federal regualtions. Ag is an industry I don't consider bailouts or subsidies as socialist. Most of it is market controlled to some degree and forced upon them federally. Most meat farmers can turn good profits if they know what they're doing. My brother-in-law has 6 chicken houses in GA. They've been paid off a few years now and they bank about $90K per batch. 4-5 times a year. They are pretty much in millionaire zone now, and their houses are only about 10 years old. If you already own your land outright, chicken houses can be very lucrative. And if you work a full time job until the houses are paid off, then you are set for life. If you are not a free spender anyway.

The government regulates and subsidizes ag so food stays cheap and the people don't get restless.

 

[GVF]

Was just reminiscing about days gone by. BUT, also thinking if price regulations got out of the way along with subsidies, it might bring back the close customer-farmer relations, probably a return to healthy eating too. Around here, there are two places known to me, where you can buy your locally grass-fed beef and mutton, and uncaged poutry, (we avoid pork) to go along with local produce. The places we get it here is run by the farmers (a coop I imagine), I never asked. I never thought about it until just now, but I've never seen the meat with the USDA stamp on it, also never asked about that either.

We have a local farmer up in Gainesboro that pasture raises pure bred Berkshire pigs. The meat is nothing in flavor or fat like hog farm pork. And if you have a reliable source for free-range birds (they are quite expensive), the flavor of that chicken is mind-blowing comapred to near flavorless store chicken.

 

[Wireless1]

That's why I referred to dairy. I knew it was more restrictive, but I'm also not an expert in Ag markets and federal regualtions. Ag is an industry I don't consider bailouts or subsidies as socialist. Most of it is market controlled to some degree and forced upon them federally. Most meat farmers can turn good profits if they know what they're doing. My brother-in-law has 6 chicken houses in GA. They've been paid off a few years now and they bank about $90K per batch. 4-5 times a year. They are pretty much in millionaire zone now, and their houses are only about 10 years old. If you already own your land outright, chicken houses can be very lucrative. And if you work a full time job until the houses are paid off, then you are set for life. If you are not a free spender anyway.

Does he own the chicks or is he raising somebody elses?

 

[BreatheUT]

You can truthfully say the same thing about most politicians, and especially of Trump. So much so he was less a President than a Liarindent. His lies are even documented. Many of these lies, I watched him state on national TV in real time. L1 L2 L3 L4 {Commentary}

I don't hate Trump, I simply don't trust him. But then again, I don't trust any politician. If he was barely hanging on for dear life at the edge of a cliff, I'd do my damnest to try to help him to safety, even though I believe he'd just laugh at me and probably stomp on my fingers if the situation was reversed. He hides information that could make his opponents and haters look like fools if that information exonerated him. He hides information because if made known, they'd show him to be dishonest about so much, his college grades, his financial record, sex with underage girls, and more. If he was innocent, revealing this information would crush his critics, and I, for one, would jump on board and become a rabid supporter of his. I know one thing above all else, people dislike the truth unless it either flatters them or disparages someone else. So for me, his lies in volume, repetition, and type tells me all I need to know about the man. Yet, I do not hate him, I just don't trust him.

Lol...trolling.

 

[hUTch2002]

Repubs aren't innocent of the free crap stuff. Farmer subsidies, special tax and other exemptions for businesses who donate liberally to their campaigns, under the table funding and rewards for the same and each other, diverting SS funds into accounts that increase their wealth at the expense of us all. It's the very socialism that Republiars claim to be against, yet practice mostly covertly, but at times overtly, counting on sheeple to be ignorant about it, ignore it, or overlook it. Or benefit from it and keep quiet about it. And this is why I'm an independent voter, you can't trust any of them whether Democreeps or Republiars. Will Rogers was right: The more you read and observe about this Politics thing, the more you've got to admit that each party is worse than the other.

Yeah, neither side is innocent. I think both are basically leading us down the same path and it’s not a good one. It’s my belief that Dems gets us down that path faster but it’s the same either way.

 

[hUTch2002]

But a good bit of the time he defended the hyperbole as accurate while you guys danced and made excuses like the old hyperbole argument.

Well, if he defends it as accurate when it’s clearly not I’m good with calling him on that. But even when he said something entirely joking Dems and the MSM would lose their minds trying to make something out of it. It’s stupid.

 

[hUTch2002]

Hard to discourse with rightists without them offended by the truth. My point was the Republiars who claim to be against socialism, practice it themselves. In theory, capitalism means you stand or fall on your own merits. As a matter of fact, we do have something called corporate welfare so remember that when you talk about welfare. So if a farmer or any business falls, and you give them compensation for failure, it's socialism. I never said it was limited to that, the stuff you refer in your reply, you'd not get opposition from me because I think the same thing - without the insulting comments. Nonetheless, socialism is socialism by any other name. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy. But as I tend to say: The truth isn't welcome by most people unless it flatters them or denigrates someone else.

Not all socialism is bad and you’re right that there is plenty of it in place already. Not everything can be “free” though. Eventually people have to pay for their own crap.

 

[hUTch2002]

My hope in humanity is semi-restored, in the absence of the participation of certain posters, we've just engaged in real discourse rather than baseless insults and nothing more. THANKS. And I got an increased awareness of factors relevant to subsidies to boot.

Shut up stupid. I’m kidding man. We can discuss can even, gasp, disagree without hurling insults.

 

[BowlBrother85]

Talk about a friendship that went bad...sheesh.

Once upon a time (2005), Donald Trump made a sizable donation to the Clinton foundation, because he wanted Bill and Hillary to attend his wedding to Melania, and he was afraid they wouldn't, otherwise.

Donald Trump Says His Money Drew Hillary Clinton to His Wedding

 

[WoodsmanVol]

We have a local farmer up in Gainesboro that pasture raises pure bred Berkshire pigs. The meat is nothing in flavor or fat like hog farm pork. And if you have a reliable source for free-range birds (they are quite expensive), the flavor of that chicken is mind-blowing comapred to near flavorless store chicken.

I don't doubt the flavor quality. The pork thing is a religious issue for us. Now and then, I catch a whiff of hickory smoked bacon and find myself whimpering, remembering my childhood.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Not all socialism is bad and you’re right that there is plenty of it in place already. Not everything can be “free” though. Eventually people have to pay for their own crap.

In my experience of being raised in the South, socialism is bad only when it benefits "them" and not "us." Saw the evidence up close and personal, time and again. And now, the GOP aims to keep it that way. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Forms and approaches may evolve, but cactus needles will never be periwinkle blossoms, nor will how socialism is understood by set attitudes. I understood this before I even knew socialism existed. Funny how kids can pick on things adults think is too complex for them.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Shut up stupid. I’m kidding man. We can discuss can even, gasp, disagree without hurling insults.

Actually, I don't mind insults, they can be funny. We have some posters here who only know how to insult and nothing else. So much so, I posted an invitation in the MEME thread yesterday. Just to have some fun and maybe help them get a bit of spite out of their system. Then you had to go and have a real conversation with. SPOILER!

 

[LargeOrange1]

I guess he needed to grab a headline. He hasn't had one since his last round of Putin azz kissing.

Trump sues Hillary Clinton, DNC and others, alleging conspiracy to link his campaign to Russia - CNNPolitics

 

[hUTch2002]

In my experience of being raised in the South, socialism is bad only when it benefits "them" and not "us." Saw the evidence up close and personal, time and again. And now, the GOP aims to keep it that way. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Forms and approaches may evolve, but cactus needles will never be periwinkle blossoms, nor will how socialism is understood by set attitudes. I understood this before I even knew socialism existed. Funny how kids can pick on things adults think is too complex for them.

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Hopefully that pic isn’t referencing GA’s voting rights battle between the parties. Both parties absolutely gerrymander and try to find ways to change the rules in their favor. In fact, that’s partially why Biden is in the WH now. Dems outmaneuvered Reps in key states to change the rules and Reps didn’t (1) fight the changes when they were made and waited until after the election to do so; and (2) didn’t take advantage of the rules changes themselves. BB isn’t right about much on here but he’s right that Reps could’ve been promoting mail in votes and working the system the same way Dems did. It’s already a race to the bottom anyway so why pretend it matters how the votes come in. But GA changed their laws for the special circumstance of covid and then went back to most of their old rules (some did change). The rules in GA are way less strict than Delaware but Dems don’t care about DE because that’s an easy win for them. So anyway, that might not have been what you were referencing with the pic. You said you don’t like hypocrisy so I assume you agree Dems are full of it when it comes to the claims that Reps are trying to suppress voter rights in GA while they do nothing about the far more strict blue states.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Hopefully that pic isn’t referencing GA’s voting rights battle between the parties. Both parties absolutely gerrymander and try to find ways to change the rules in their favor. In fact, that’s partially why Biden is in the WH now. Dems outmaneuvered Reps in key states to change the rules and Reps didn’t (1) fight the changes when they were made and waited until after the election to do so; and (2) didn’t take advantage of the rules changes themselves. BB isn’t right about much on here but he’s right that Reps could’ve been promoting mail in votes and working the system the same way Dems did. It’s already a race to the bottom anyway so why pretend it matters how the votes come in. But GA changed their laws for the special circumstance of covid and then went back to most of their old rules (some did change). The rules in GA are way less strict than Delaware but Dems don’t care about DE because that’s an easy win for them. So anyway, that might not have been what you were referencing with the pic. You said you don’t like hypocrisy so I assume you agree Dems are full of it when it comes to the claims that Reps are trying to suppress voter rights in GA while they do nothing about the far more strict blue states.

I think in various posts I made it clear that I don't trust either party. My Will Rogers quotes illustrate the same. I think the USA is heading toward exactly the same thing that tainted Germany back in the 1930s and 40s regardless of political party.

 

[GVF]

I don't doubt the flavor quality. The pork thing is a religious issue for us. Now and then, I catch a whiff of hickory smoked bacon and find myself whimpering, remembering my childhood.

I understand the pork issue. I just have a different religious view of it. I am sorry for your loss of bacon though. lol.

My brother's wife doesn't do pork or "shellfish". He's remanded to turkey bacon when she cooks breakfast.

 

[OrangeTsar]

I’m waiting for the Biden lie counter. That man lies with every breath he takes.

In Fairness though, if your mind is so far gone that you can’t tell the difference between truth and fiction, is it really a lie?

 

[GroverCleveland]

There's not many geographical plots in TN large enough for the scale of farming it would take to be the sole income. We used to have tobacco credits, but my dad let htem go back about 15 years ago or so. It's a shame. We'd let a local grow it under our credits, and take 10% off the top. He paid taxes and insurance for years doing that while we were still in GA. According to him, our TN farm had some of the best tobacco soil around outside of Tobacco Road. My neighbor does cows on hte side. He does pretty decent. Grows hay in a couple of our fields and keeps cows in the bigger ones. We all get farm property tax. That saves me a bundle.

Maybe in east Tennessee, but from southern Tennessee to the west has plenty of large farming operations and nice looking farmland.

Enjoying the discussion on agriculture. However, as misty eyed as we get for the old days, it is simply not economically feasible to farm for a living on a couple of hundred acres and the discussion has left out one major consideration regarding farm subsidies. Every country on the planet does it.

Every nation subsidized cotton production with one notable exception I knew of: Australia. Some examples: China subsidizes all of their raw cotton production and buys US cotton to supply what they cannot produce themselves. India the same. One reason some countries subsidized their cotton production for export was because cotton was a source of hard currency as it trades in US dollars.

Here is one of my favorites: back in the 80s, I was in talks with Zimbabwe to provide computer systems for their cotton industry. They had 13 nice, new Lummus gin plants that had been built in the country paid for...wait for it...wait for it...the US government.

Also, try selling and shipping rice to Japan. At one time in the 80s, we could deliver rice from Arkansas to Japan for a fraction of the cost the Japanese raised it themselves. But, as it was told to me, they went hungry during and after WW2 and and fully intend to be independent with regards to production for their own consumption. All those scenic farms in the French countryside? Subsidized. Hard to compete when everyone else is doing it globally.