TrumPutinGate

#8,277
#8,277
McDad said:
That sound awfully close to a small government ideal. Government does what it is mandated to do and the people (charitable works) pick up the slack.
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I was worried you may interpret it that way. Government can pick up where people's charity fails. (which unfortunately is a pretty massive failure) People can pick back up on the ones still falling through the cracks. View it as kind of a continuous circle.
 
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#8,278
#8,278
luthervol said:
I was worried you may interpret it that way. Government can pick up where people's charity fails. (which unfortunately is a pretty massive failure) People can pick back up on the ones still falling through the cracks. View it as kind of a continuous circle.
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I saw my shot and took it. :dance:

How do you reconcile the inherent risks in your system? Ex: you are elected and funnel money to something I oppose and when I'm elected I funnel money to something you oppose
 
#8,279
#8,279
McDad said:
I saw my shot and took it. :dance:

How do you reconcile the inherent risks in your system? Ex: you are elected and funnel money to something I oppose and when I'm elected I funnel money to something you oppose
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It is irreconcilable. It will always happen; thus the non-perfect system. There is money being funneled to one thing or another that everyone opposes. That's just one of the prices paid for living in a civil society. I wish they didn't use my home owner's maintenance fees to plant flowers at the back entrance to our neighborhood; (I never use that entrance anyway) however, I love what they've done with the new pool furniture. Just the price I'm willing to pay to live in this neighborhood, and the crap I'm willingly forced to put up with.
 
#8,280
#8,280
luthervol said:
It is irreconcilable. It will always happen; thus the non-perfect system. There is money being funneled to one thing or another that everyone opposes. That's just one of the prices paid for living in a civil society. I wish they didn't use my home owner's maintenance fees to plant flowers at the back entrance to our neighborhood; (I never use that entrance anyway) however, I love what they've done with the new pool furniture. Just the price I'm willing to pay to live in this neighborhood, and the crap I'm willingly forced to put up with.
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Accept it as part of the gig?
 
#8,281
#8,281
McDad said:
Accept it as part of the gig?
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That's the way I see it. Or move out of the neighborhood. The thing is, around here, most neighborhoods without home owners / maintenance fees aren't the ones in which I wish to live.
 
#8,282
#8,282
luthervol said:
That's the way I see it. Or move out of the neighborhood. The thing is, around here, most neighborhoods without home owners / maintenance fees aren't the ones in which I wish to live.
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Are the HOA fees income based?
 
#8,285
#8,285
McDad said:
Are the HOA fees income based?
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They're not. All the homes are in the same range of values and there wouldn't be a huge discrepancy in household income. If the tax system were as equitable as our HOA fees, I'd be thrilled. You may misread that statement also. I'm all for the graduated system.
 
#8,286
#8,286
luthervol said:
They're not. All the homes are in the same range of values and there wouldn't be a huge discrepancy in household income. If the tax system were as equitable as our HOA fees, I'd be thrilled. You may misread that statement also. I'm all for the graduated system.
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Not based on square footage, amenities, landscaping, number living in the household, nothing?
 
#8,287
#8,287
McDad said:
The couple making 1M and the couple making 250k pay the same in fees?
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They would in our neighborhood. The equity would come with the difference in property taxes; even though they would be taxed at the same rate.
 
#8,289
#8,289
luthervol said:
They would in our neighborhood. The equity would come with the difference in property taxes; even though they would be taxed at the same rate.
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I don't understand the property tax statement. Is anyone exempt from your HOA fees?
 
#8,292
#8,292
McDad said:
I'm trying to discern where your analogy is similar/different from government. Hope that's okay.
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That's fine. My point is simply that when members of a defined society share a common burden they can reap rewards that benefit each differently but also the society as a whole. Also when a defined society decides not to ask for a shared burden, the burden falls disproportionately on those most willing to accept it and ultimately leads to the deterioration of that society.
 
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#8,293
#8,293
I happen to agree. So did the Framers of the Constitution. Common defense and General welfare address such an ideal. The difference is you want spending and borrowing to be based on who is deserving (which is a sliding scale with many variables). I want it based on written mandates that are more rigid.

I wish our country shared the burden as your HOA. Divide the budgetary burden equally among the community. No exemptions. No graduated rates. This intimately ties together the consumer of government services (citizenry) with the cost. A 5T budget ÷ 200M adults = $25,000 a piece per year. Not even counting the 19T in debt. Welcome to the Country Owners Association.

FTR, I like socialism in a community of free people but not as a form of governance.

Have a great weekend.
 
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#8,294
#8,294
McDad said:
I happen to agree. So did the Framers of the Constitution. Common defense and General welfare address such an ideal. The difference is you want spending and borrowing to be based on who is deserving (which is a sliding scale with many variables). I want it based on written mandates that are more rigid.

I wish our country shared the burden as your HOA. Divide the budgetary burden equally among the community. No exemptions. No graduated rates. This intimately ties together the consumer of government services (citizenry) with the cost. A 5T budget ÷ 200M adults = $25,000 a piece per year. Not even counting the 19T in debt. Welcome to the Country Owners Association.

FTR, I like socialism in a community of free people but not as a form of governance.

Have a great weekend.
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Remember, I'm heading to Cape San Blas for a week tomorrow.

The "general welfare" umbrella offers a little more coverage in my eyes than in yours.

Sharing the burden equally does not mean every one paying an equal amount in taxes.

We probably ultimately have more areas of agreement than disagreement. Pride in our kids not the least of those, and an orange section in the closet.
 
#8,295
#8,295
luthervol said:
Remember, I'm heading to Cape San Blas for a week tomorrow.

The "general welfare" umbrella offers a little more coverage in my eyes than in yours.

Sharing the burden equally does not mean every one paying an equal amount in taxes.

We probably ultimately have more areas of agreement than disagreement. Pride in our kids not the least of those, and an orange section in the closet.
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That's right. I hate you.

Thanks for the reminder.
 
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#8,296
#8,296
McDad said:
I happen to agree. So did the Framers of the Constitution. Common defense and General welfare address such an ideal. The difference is you want spending and borrowing to be based on who is deserving (which is a sliding scale with many variables). I want it based on written mandates that are more rigid.

I wish our country shared the burden as your HOA. Divide the budgetary burden equally among the community. No exemptions. No graduated rates. This intimately ties together the consumer of government services (citizenry) with the cost. A 5T budget ÷ 200M adults = $25,000 a piece per year. Not even counting the 19T in debt. Welcome to the Country Owners Association.

FTR, I like socialism in a community of free people but not as a form of governance.

Have a great weekend.
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The problem with your argument is that the wealth of the country is not distributed equally. Generally people that live in a neighborhood have close to the same amounts of disposable monies and all can afford the general terms of living there like HOA fees. The problem with our Republic is that so few have garnered so much money that a few thousand own more than 200 million.
 
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#8,297
#8,297
VolStrom said:
The problem with your argument is that the wealth of the country is not distributed equally. Generally people that live in a neighborhood have close to the same amounts of disposable monies and all can afford the general terms of living there like HOA fees. The problem with our Republic is that so few have garnered so much money that a few thousand own more than 200 million.
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Interesting that you can know net worth, mortgages amounts, and home equities by the neighborhood. We both know you cannot.

The 200 million is the estimated number of adults. How do a few thousand own 200 million adults?
 
#8,298
#8,298
luthervol said:
That's fine. My point is simply that when members of a defined society share a common burden they can reap rewards that benefit each differently but also the society as a whole. Also when a defined society decides not to ask for a shared burden, the burden falls disproportionately on those most willing to accept it and ultimately leads to the deterioration of that society.
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It kind of sounds like your analogy is showing that money should be spent, and decisions made, at the most local level possible.
 
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#8,299
#8,299
Orange_Crush said:
It kind of sounds like your analogy is showing that money should be spent, and decisions made, at the most local level possible.
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I agree. Most things can exist within federal guidelines and minimums and be handled at the state and local levels. When it's proven that state and local is not adequate, the feds have to step in. The better the job done at the state and local level, the less the feds will need to be involved. Historically it's all to often been shown that state and local governments aren't willing or able to do an adequate job.
 
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