TrumPutinGate

#2,251
#2,251
MT LeConte said:
I don't thing there's going to be any getting along. Our elected officials show no inclination to compromise on anything. They won't compromise because their constituents (us) won't let them.

I'm afraid one side is eventually going to have to get the upper hand and banish the other to the trash heap of history.
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MT, I'm not convinced that either side of the isle listens to or even cares about their constituents. I think their only concern has become how to line their own pockets.
 
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#2,253
#2,253
lawgator1 said:
I understand. And perhaps I could phrase it better. But Trump is pathological. He has no compunction about lying to protect his childish ego. It's astounding people are proud of voting for him.

Tell you what, I know at least five people that have said they regret voting for him and are embarrassed that they did.
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Who did you vote for?
 
#2,255
#2,255
The best translation so far of why Flynn wants/wanted immunity by Seth Abramson, who was a criminal attorney for 7 years in 2 states, representing thousands of clients in that time in cases up to first-degree murder.

And yes it is a ton to read so if you have Alabama in you and don't like big words or words at all just skip it.

"Certain legal concepts discussed in this thread have been slightly simplified for the purposes of explaining their contours via Twitter. There are 3 major types of immunity: use immunity, derivative use immunity, and transactional immunity. The first is worst, last best. Transactional immunity means you can't be prosecuted for any crime involved in a discrete course of conduct. Defendants love/want this. Use immunity says testimony in a criminal case can't be used to charge you with a crime or as evidence against you. Prosecutors love it. Derivative use immunity means your testimony can't be used against you, _nor_ can any evidence discovered as a result of that testimony. Defense attorneys always ask for transactional immunity. Prosecutors always say no--unless it convicts a major figure, like a president. As to Flynn, it seems the FBI already has the goods on him for making false statements. So use immunity doesn't help him on that charge. Flynn could seek use immunity on a crime no one knows about yet. But with so many investigating, he knows they'd get him by other means. And of course it doesn't make sense to seek use immunity for a crime you committed that you know _no one_ will ever find out about. Meanwhile, Flynn and his attorney would have known that it's too early to get transactional immunity. There's more investigating to do. All of which makes Flynn's immunity offer bizarre. (a) They're never made publicly; (b) there are 3 entities investigating him, so...he'd need immunity from all 3 to make it useful; (c) it's too early to ask for transactional immunity unless he can deliver POTUS; (d) he wouldn't ask for use immunity on a charge he's now dead to rights on; (e) he wouldn't ask for _any_ immunity for a crime he knows no one will ever discover; (f) his attorney has no info on what the feds have, so how can he determine how much danger his client's in? And (g) before immunity is given you make a proffer--a broad statement of what evidence you have--but it seems we don't have one here. For those who think this is mere theater, think again: attorneys can't make misrepresentations to the feds. So this is a "real" offer. All of which means: (i) Flynn is seeking use immunity on a _bigger offense_ than the one the feds already have him dead to rights on which already carries 5 years in federal prison; (ii) Flynn's either delivering a bigger fish (POTUS), a _huge_ number of smaller ones,r a slightly smaller one (say Manafort or Kushner) who committed a _much_ more serious crime than anything Flynn did; (iii) Flynn thinks he's about to be in an "immunity race," in that he must beat out many other co-defendants in seeking immunity from the feds. Flynn may have committed a crime worse than "false statements" that would be difficult to prove other than with his testimony, which is true for crimes largely based on words (e.g. threats, promises, oral agreements) with largely unavailable (foreign) witnesses. Flynn making an immunity request this early lets investigators know that if they hit a wall, he likely has _something_ that would help. And not to be morbid, but you'd tend to make a _very_ public request for immunity if you thought you might be killed by a co-defendants. Flynn so _publicly_ implying he has the goods on Russiagate greatly _increases_ the risk of discovery for anyone trying to silence him. Let's be clear: Flynn's immunity request _very strongly suggests_ there was a criminal conspiracy at the highest levels of government. Let's be clear on this, too: Flynn's request all but confirms Russiagate as the most serious political scandal of any of our lifetimes. Flynn may yet get his immunity. He will if prosecutors hit a wall--if they reach a point where only Flynn can give them what they need. Flynn's offer is also an implicit--if inadvertent--encouragement for other defendants to flip with better terms (or targets) than him. The National Security Adviser to the President of the United States indicating he has criminal culpability means America is _changed_. No one_ in this scandal is getting pardoned--ever. The general theme (treason) is _so_ hot that _no_ politician will risk a pardon."
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#2,256
#2,256
volprof said:
How 'bout the board give it up to Juliette Kayyam?

She called the whole Flynn thing roughly a week before the WSJ article "broke."

Again, I can't emphasize enough the importance of finding good sources - ones with a verified track record.
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Someone switched usernames....
 
#2,257
#2,257
carlos86 said:
The best translation so far of why Flynn wants/wanted immunity by Seth Abramson, who was a criminal attorney for 7 years in 2 states, representing thousands of clients in that time in cases up to first-degree murder.

And yes it is a ton to read so if you have Alabama in you and don't like big words or words at all just skip it.
Click to expand...

On the LawNewz blog, run by ABC chief legal affairs correspondent Dan Abrams, writer Rachel Stockman polled various well-known criminal defense attorneys, and the general verdict was that the immunity request was a simply evidence that Flynn's attorney knows what he's doing. The request was "fairly standard," white collar criminal defense attorney Elkan Abramowitz told her. "I can't imagine if I were his lawyer that I wouldn't ask for immunity regardless of whether he did anything illegal or not," said attorney Mark Zaid, who specializes in government whistleblower cases.

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/31/flyn...not-be-the-bombshell-everyone-says-it-is.html
 
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#2,259
#2,259
lawgator1 said:
I understand. And perhaps I could phrase it better. But Trump is pathological. He has no compunction about lying to protect his childish ego. It's astounding people are proud of voting for him.

Tell you what, I know at least five people that have said they regret voting for him and are embarrassed that they did.
Click to expand...

We accept a certain level of lying and scandal from our presidents. W. was still in the bounds, as was Obama, despite what many on here will say. The Clintons have and continue to flirt with transcending that boundary, and with her emails, she - at least - perhaps did.

But Donny is in another realm of deceit and corruption altogether. We've never seen anything like this.

It's the change America evidently wanted, and it's the change it's going to get.
 
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#2,264
#2,264
volprof said:
We accept a certain level of lying and scandal from our presidents. W. was still in the bounds, as was Obama, despite what many on here will say. The Clintons have and continue to flirt with transcending that boundary, and with her emails, she - at least - perhaps did.

But Donny is in another realm of deceit and corruption altogether. We've never seen anything like this.

It's the change America evidently wanted, and it's the change it's going to get.
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Don't know what you're drinking, but I hope you have enough for the rest of the class..............
 
#2,265
#2,265
How many months have the Dims been pushing the Holy Grail of scandals about the Russians and Trump? Yet not a shred of evidence. Can't wait for this thing to backfire on their asses.
 
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#2,266
#2,266
AirVol said:
How many months have the Dims been pushing the Holy Grail of scandals about the Russians and Trump? Yet not a shred of evidence. Can't wait for this thing to backfire on their asses.
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Flynn talked about the sanctions with a Russian spy. Manaforte was on their payroll, making millions, and changed the GOP platform for them.

More to come.
 
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#2,267
#2,267
lawgator1 said:
Flynn talked about the sanctions with a Russian spy. Manaforte was on their payroll, making millions, and changed the GOP platform for them.

More to come.
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Ohhh. There is a lot more to come. You and your fellow libs are not going to like it though.

Just wait and see. Wait and see.
 
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#2,268
#2,268
Obsessed said:
Ohhh. There is a lot more to come. You and your fellow libs are not going to like it though.

Just wait and see. Wait and see.
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How very ominous.

Be careful not to buy into the fake news with which you will be increasingly inundated. The Trump protectors will be throwing out anything and everything hoping to divert and mislead. They are looking for any red herring.
 
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#2,269
#2,269
lawgator1 said:
Flynn talked about the sanctions with a Russian spy. Manaforte was on their payroll, making millions, and changed the GOP platform for them.

More to come.
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You mean Ambassador? Yes I know it's one in the same since every diplomat is in essence a spy.
 
#2,270
#2,270
luthervol said:
How very ominous.

Be careful not to buy into the fake news with which you will be increasingly inundated. The Trump protectors will be throwing out anything and everything hoping to divert and mislead. They are looking for any red herring.
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Yep. You guys believe all muslims are great people and Trump is a Russian spy.

Talk about throwing out anything....

If you think any of of this real, there is something wrong with you. This is all deflection to keep your eyes off the real issues.

Hillary said " if he wins, we will all hang".

Why do you think she said that? He would expose their corruption. What better way to demonize him than to try and tie him to the big bad Russians.

You guys need to open your damn eyes.
 
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#2,272
#2,272
Obsessed said:
Yep. You guys believe all muslims are great people and Trump is a Russian spy.

Talk about throwing out anything....

If you think any of of this real, there is something wrong with you. This is all deflection to keep your eyes off the real issues.

Hillary said " if he wins, we will all hang".

Why do you think she said that? He would expose their corruption. What better way to demonize him than to try and tie him to the big bad Russians.

You guys need to open your damn eyes.
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Dims keep their eyes closed. No point trying to help them OB.
 
#2,275
#2,275
AirVol said:
How many months have the Dims been pushing the Holy Grail of scandals about the Russians and Trump? Yet not a shred of evidence. Can't wait for this thing to backfire on their asses.
Click to expand...

Hope you're not waiting in the "This will all backfire on their asses" line somewhere, because, if you are, you're going to be standing there an awful long time.
 
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