type of offense debate

[Spartacavolus]

there has been much debate regarding the offense Butch wants to use. Last year, obviously, we were handcuffed for many reasons. Some folks want us to get back to prostyle 2 TE, iform, etc, and I get that as that's the football I was used to for many years. Smashmouth, run people over, play action, etc. Many like the spread and others call it gimmicky, though there is still PA, running the ball, TE usage, etc.
After watching Bama and little Nicky against spread type teams, it's obvious that the best way to beat the best over the last few years and years to come is to spread them out and use every inch of the field and every offensive weapon, as Butch will hopefully try to do when we get more weapons and experience in the O. They pretty much beat down everybody else, but auburn, a&m, and ok are the only teams to beat them the last few years. They all run spread and have a qb making plays throwing and running.
OK simply sent rbs to the flats, TE's and wr's near the hash and picked them apart by spreading them out and mixing in runs and qb runs when he saw man coverage.
That's exactly how our offense should look @ year 3, with hopes making it's way there next year.

 

[aredfox28]

I'm happy with our offense, I've wanted us to run this style for years... we just need to get a true dual threat to run it.. what we have now just isn't gonna cut it, and will be pointless to continue to run this style..

 

[Spartacavolus]

I'm happy with our offense, I've wanted us to run this style for years... we just need to get a true dual threat to run it.. what we have now just isn't gonna cut it, and will be pointless to continue to run this style..

I liked the way Dobbs ran it ok. Considering we couldn't really spread it to speed in the flats, no TE and only 1 deep threat, I thought he did ok and used his legs as well as the OK kid.
Dobbs has a better arm than we saw late. Kid was hurt and in a tough spot.

 

[keckjm]

This topic will be talked about for years to come. Here's the problems I see with going to a spread offense. One, you live and die by your QB. Worley trying to run the read option is just embarrassing guys. You have to be able to recruit and land QBs for the spread. Two, once you are committed to the spread and recruit for it for 2-3 years you can't really go back to a pro style system without tanking first. Don't believe me, go watch Florida play. Three, the spread is the hot thing right now, but eventually great D-Coord will learn to shut it down then what do you do? The best offense is one in which you have a mixture of both spread and power IMO. I love the idea of having a QB who can roll out of the pocket and make plays for us, but at the end of the day the best way to achieve and 3rd and 1 is to line up man to man and power run the ball. If you can power run the ball it sets up play action, and when you set up play action it's near impossible to stop a great offense.

 

[GBOVOLS]

I liked the way Dobbs ran it ok. Considering we couldn't really spread it to speed in the flats, no TE and only 1 deep threat, I thought he did ok and used his legs as well as the OK kid.
Dobbs has a better arm than we saw late. Kid was hurt and in a tough spot.

Exactly I forgot what injury it was but it came out that he was injured down the stretch. Heck a good example of his throwing ability was during the Bama game he had good zip on his passes. He will improve greatly this offseason

 

[Volador]

I want a good offense

 

[Spartacavolus]

You should be able to get under the center and run basic A gap running plays as well. Thing is, seems like cramming a bunch of players close together to get 1 yard with a run doesn't get the yard as often as spreading them out and using speed to hit a gap.
Good analysis though keck.
One thing is you live and die by your qb anyway, imo, whether it's the spread or prostyle. One other thing is that people talk about coaches catching up, but Urban and others have been doing it for years and seldom are stopped. It doesn't get any better than Saban and he and his coaches have opportunities to stop teams the last 3 years and can't, mainly due to qb play.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Exactly I forgot what injury it was but it came out that he was injured down the stretch. Heck a good example of his throwing ability was during the Bama game he had good zip on his passes. He will improve greatly this offseason

he had a bad plant leg, a hurt thumb, and it was cold, which didn't help either one.
Should've put on a glove in the Vandy game. He couldn't hold onto the ball.

 

[Vol8188]

I like what we have. I would like to see more use of motion and better rythm. But I really like the spread. It allows you to outnumber the offense.

 

[Wylo]

smart playcalling helps. we didn't seem to have that..

I'm not a complete fan of his style of offense, but he hasn't asked my opinion.

It obviously can work. But be real, without the 5 turnovers, Bama rolls them. So without those defensive playmakers, Oklahoma and their offense wouldn't have mattered.

Hopefully Butch will bring in defensive studs.

 

[Vol8188]

smart playcalling helps. we didn't seem to have that..

I'm not a complete fan of his style of offense, but he hasn't asked my opinion.

It obviously can work. But be real, without the 5 turnovers, Bama rolls them. So without those defensive playmakers, Oklahoma and their offense wouldn't have mattered.

Hopefully Butch will bring in defensive studs.

Maybe Bama needs an offense that turns the ball over less

 

[keckjm]

You should be able to get under the center and run basic A gap running plays as well. Thing is, seems like cramming a bunch of players close together to get 1 yard with a run doesn't get the yard as often as spreading them out and using speed to hit a gap.
Good analysis though keck.
One thing is you live and die by your qb anyway, imo, whether it's the spread or prostyle. One other thing is that people talk about coaches catching up, but Urban and others have been doing it for years and seldom are stopped. It doesn't get any better than Saban and he and his coaches have opportunities to stop teams the last 3 years and can't, mainly due to qb play.

In all honesty I don't care what we run, but I just don't want to see anymore read option BS with Worley. I understand we are implementing a system here, but at least put someone in their who can run a read option properly. I would love to see us get behind center in some single back formations though. I really think this team needs some more power running. I'm not saying we must line up in the I-Form to get it, but I wouldn't mind seeing some two TE single back sets. I just think we need to have more versatility outside running the ball out of the shotgun. I'm in full support of your argument that spreading the ball out and running it works and is effective, all I'd add is that I think it'd be in our best interest to not only be able to spread the field but also be able to play formations in which our QB is behind center.

 

[92volalum]

i wanted tn to move to the spread type off during fulmers last few years n was very happy when he hired clawson.. however when fulmer did it half way i turned on fulmer n knew he was done at tn..

if u watched any of the bowls 90% of the team r running some type of dual threat qb n spread off. saying that my problem is that it takes a special qb to/win championships in that style because u rely on the qb so much, plus if he gets hurt u r/screwed. in a pro/set u can have a avg qb n cover his weakness with other team members..imo

u heard the announcers say ou looked so good because the qb was playing the game of his life vs. being avg all year thus the reason they lost 2 games..

i hope our qbs prove me wrong but the ones that have played do not look/great but avg thus will equate to 8 wins or so not championships..imo 8 is better than 5 but u r still irrelevant when it comes nc.

 

[Spartacavolus]

OK qb has been in that system for 2 years, which helps a ton.

 

[Vol8188]

I find the assertion that a spread needs a "superior" qb as absurd. Texas Tech under Leach and Hawaii under Jones never had superior qb's. Their qb's were average at best, but the scheme made them look phenomenal

 

[GBOVOLS]

he had a bad plant leg, a hurt thumb, and it was cold, which didn't help either one.
Should've put on a glove in the Vandy game. He couldn't hold onto the ball.

Ok I knew it was something couldn't remember. But he needs A LOT of weight room work this off season. He took some shots

 

[GBOVOLS]

i wanted tn to move to the spread type off during fulmers last few years n was very happy when he hired clawson.. however when fulmer did it half way i turned on fulmer n knew he was done at tn..

if u watched any of the bowls 90% of the team r running some type of dual threat qb n spread off. saying that my problem is that it takes a special qb to/win championships in that style because u rely on the qb so much, plus if he gets hurt u r/screwed. in a pro/set u can have a avg qb n cover his weakness with other team members..imo

u heard the announcers say ou looked so good because the qb was playing the game of his life vs. being avg all year thus the reason they lost 2 games..

i hope our qbs prove me wrong but the ones that have played do not look/great but avg thus will equate to 8 wins or so not championships..imo 8 is better than 5 but u r still irrelevant when it comes nc.

Greatness takes time and practice. Give them time.

 

[Spartacavolus]

I find the assertion that a spread needs a "superior" qb as absurd. Texas Tech under Leach and Hawaii under Jones never had superior qb's. Their qb's were average at best, but the scheme made them look phenomenal

making the right reads, the right throws, and using your feet to get yards when the opportunity arises is great qb play in the spread, regardless of your rivals ranking.
Auburn qb was a wr/db, and is about to play in the NC game.

 

[Vol8188]

making the right reads, the right throws, and using your feet to get yards when the opportunity arises is great qb play in the spread, regardless of your rivals ranking.
Auburn qb was a wr/db, and is about to play in the NC game.

But a lot of the reads are simply, and when using your feet you are running on air and running down hill at the defense. It really does take that special of a qb.

 

[sjt18]

It is not a good idea to tailor your offense to any single opponent. Whether you run the spread, "power spread", I, or single wing.... it eventually comes down to player development, execution, gameplanning, and playcalling. Even lesser players who execute their system will have success. Duke is a great example. They are nowhere near as talented as Miami or TAM. But their O had great success against the better defensive athletes for those teams.

What Jones describes in talking about his O makes sense. He still has to develop the players and coach... but it is one reasonable way to skin a cat.

 

[OrangeByBirth]

It doesn't matter what I think! Furthermore, by the time I learn to like it, it will change. It has been an evolution for as long as I have followed football. Offenses change, defenses catch up, offenses change again ... repeat as necessary.

 

[rickyb712]

This topic will be talked about for years to come. Here's the problems I see with going to a spread offense. One, you live and die by your QB. Worley trying to run the read option is just embarrassing guys. You have to be able to recruit and land QBs for the spread. Two, once you are committed to the spread and recruit for it for 2-3 years you can't really go back to a pro style system without tanking first. Don't believe me, go watch Florida play. Three, the spread is the hot thing right now, but eventually great D-Coord will learn to shut it down then what do you do? The best offense is one in which you have a mixture of both spread and power IMO. I love the idea of having a QB who can roll out of the pocket and make plays for us, but at the end of the day the best way to achieve and 3rd and 1 is to line up man to man and power run the ball. If you can power run the ball it sets up play action, and when you set up play action it's near impossible to stop a great offense.[/QUO


i call bull sh_ _ any offense you run you have a qb throws the ball,runner runs the ball, and receiver catches it, its a matter of calling the right play and able to adjust to a defense.

 

[butchna]

I'm happy with our offense, I've wanted us to run this style for years... we just need to get a true dual threat to run it.. what we have now just isn't gonna cut it, and will be pointless to continue to run this style..

Everybody is too hung up on the true dual threat QB thing...Nick Foles is running Chip Kelly's version at an optimum level and CK had a big say in drafting Matt Barkley for it...when they already had Michael Vick? Two years ago Butch's Cincy team started running more efficiently when Kay took over for Legaux. We've developed preconceived notions on what type of QB succeeds in the read option and what prevails...like in any system...is accuracy,ability to make all the required throws,recognition of disguised coverages and most importantly decision making...as in any system, wheels are a great supplement to a field general's arsenal, but the least important on their resume.
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[oregonvol]

I don't really care what style we run as long as it works. And in order for it to work, it has to get the best out of the personnel and it has to adapt to attack each particular team's weaknesses. I didn't see that out of the offense this year.

 

[golfballs]

It's a matter of personnel. Few teams if any have the players to beat Bama at their own game.