UFC Thread

#1,326
#1,326
n_huffhines said:
My point is that we consciously and subconsciously evaluate fighters on their physical appearance. Even though you weren't sold on his muscles, your assessment was still based on physical appearance.
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You said Kelvin wasn't physically imposing, therefore we underestimated him. That wasn't true for me, I dont look at guys and say he doesn't have muscles so he won't be as good. You are switching your argument now, saying I base off physical experience. My favorite fighters are BJ, Gegard and Gustaffson. None of those guys are physically imposing. My assessment was based on guys with muscle mass generally gas quickly.
 
#1,328
#1,328
BadJerry20 said:
You said Kelvin wasn't physically imposing, therefore we underestimated him. That wasn't true for me, I dont look at guys and say he doesn't have muscles so he won't be as good. You are switching your argument now, saying I base off physical experience. My favorite fighters are BJ, Gegard and Gustaffson. None of those guys are physically imposing. My assessment was based on guys with muscle mass generally gas quickly.
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I'm not changing my argument. Who in the house that wasn't physically imposing did you correctly pick for an upset? Did you pick Dylan over Luke? Did you pick Kelvin in any of his 3 fights? Jimmy over Clint? I don't remember anybody calling those.

I'm not talking about picking your favorite fighters, I'm talking about scouting talent.
 
#1,329
#1,329
n_huffhines said:
I'm not changing my argument. Who in the house that wasn't physically imposing did you correctly pick for an upset? Did you pick Dylan over Luke? Did you pick Kelvin in any of his 3 fights? Jimmy over Clint? I don't remember anybody calling those.

I'm not talking about picking your favorite fighters, I'm talking about scouting talent.
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You said we pick based on physical appearance, after I said that about Gilbert you said we base it off of appearance. Thats changing your argument, cause I based that off of knowing big physically imposing guys with muscles gas. I don't think anyone has really been picking fights but ok. Btw I never bought into Luke, thought he was a stupid first pick. You might pick based off of a guys body, I simply do not.

I picked my favorite fighters based on talent. BJ has repeatedly fought guys that looked more physically imposing, and destroyed them. Brock is a perfect example of hype that I never bought in to.
 
#1,330
#1,330
To prove how dumb picking a fighter based on being physically imposing someone is, look at the champs.
Physically imposing for their class, Bones, GSP, maybe Aldo are
Not physically imposing, Cain, Silva and Benson

So anybody that really follows MMA would know picking based off of someones appearance would be foolish.
 
#1,331
#1,331
You're missing the boat. I agree it's stupid to pick based off appearance. I'm saying the reality is that everyone does it. We've seen BJ fight 30 times, so his size doesn't factor in anymore. I'm talking about scouting new prospects. Saying Gilbert is going to get gassed is still an assessment based on appearance. And he wasn't physically imposing....yeah he's a walking muscle but he's short. Luke is more physically imposing than Gilbert. Saying you picked against Gilbert doesn't refute my argument.
 
#1,332
#1,332
If you want to say you do it then fine, I don't. I've been a BJ fan since day one, cause I loved the way he fought. I said I never bought in to Luke so that does dispute what you are saying. Saying I never bought in to Brock disputes what you are saying too. I know you like to think the media makes everyone decide how people think, that's not the case with everyone. I remember you commenting on Halls back so maybe you go off of that stuff, but don't generalize everyone because you do it. So honestly you are missing the boat, but rage on against the machine my friend.
 
#1,333
#1,333
So you didn't think Gilbert was going to beat Luke...did you think Dylan was going to beat Luke? You say nobody picked Kelvin (5 fights) because he was inexperienced, but Clint (2 fights) was inexperienced. Did you think he was going to lose? Collin Hart (5 fights)? Luke (5 fights)? A lot of these guys are inexperienced.
 
#1,334
#1,334
n_huffhines said:
So you didn't think Gilbert was going to beat Luke...did you think Dylan was going to beat Luke? You say nobody picked Kelvin (5 fights) because he was inexperienced, but Clint (2 fights) was inexperienced. Did you think he was going to lose? Collin Hart (5 fights)? Luke (5 fights)? A lot of these guys are inexperienced.
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I thought Gilbert would lose, I thought Luke would lose. I didn't say nobody picked Kelvin, I said I didn't expect him to beat Josh because of experience. I have stated that Clint is raw, so yes inexperience in MMA is a factor. Kelvin is what 20, you are throwing out number of fights and saying that equals experience. You are not factoring in amateur fights or how long they have been training MMA. Dana, Chael, and Jones all said Kelvin was the least experienced fighter. Come on huff you don't wanna go 0-2 on the day. :)
 
#1,335
#1,335
BadJerry20 said:
I thought Gilbert would lose, I thought Luke would lose. I didn't say nobody picked Kelvin, I said I didn't expect him to beat Josh because of experience. I have stated that Clint is raw, so yes inexperience in MMA is a factor. Kelvin is what 20, you are throwing out number of fights and saying that equals experience. You are not factoring in amateur fights or how long they have been training MMA. Dana, Chael, and Jones all said Kelvin was the least experienced fighter. Come on huff you don't wanna go 0-2 on the day. :)
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And they really know what they're talking about when it comes to scouting, right? I mean, their last 2 picks made the semifinals, and neither of their #1 picks did.
 
#1,336
#1,336
n_huffhines said:
And they really know what they're talking about when it comes to scouting, right? I mean, their last 2 picks made the semifinals, and neither of their #1 picks did.
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Lol We were discussing experience, they said he had the least experience. Something I am sure that they know based off of training time, and amateur fights. I didn't say anything about them scouting talent, I said they said he was inexperienced. You are really reaching at this point.
 
#1,338
#1,338
My whole point is that people aren't very good at scouting...even the "experts". Consciously and subconsciously physical factors are over-weighted in our evaluations. You may not think you do it, but everyone does.
 
#1,339
#1,339
As a Guy said to me once, you are really in over your head here. :)

Rashad has nothing to do with me not basing who I think we will off of appearance. Nor does it have anything to do with Kelvin lacking experience.
 
#1,340
#1,340
BadJerry20 said:
As a Guy said to me once, you are really in over your head here. :)

Rashad has nothing to do with me not basing who I think we will off of appearance. Nor does it have anything to do with Kelvin lacking experience.
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You're an awesome scout. Everyone else sucks.
 
#1,342
#1,342
n_huffhines said:
And they really know what they're talking about when it comes to scouting, right? I mean, their last 2 picks made the semifinals, and neither of their #1 picks did.
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You expected them to get a complete scouting report based on 1 fight with headgear that lasted 1 5 minute round?
 
#1,343
#1,343
n_huffhines said:
My whole point is that people aren't very good at scouting...even the "experts". Consciously and subconsciously physical factors are over-weighted in our evaluations. You may not think you do it, but everyone does.
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Do you want to tall experience or appearance? You keep switching when I counter your argument. I think most MMA guys base it off of talent and experience not physical appearance. Bob Sapp was scary most MMA fans were smart enough to know he would get smashed by a good fighter, same with Brock. You might go by appearance, but saying everyone does is just silly. Don't you have a Melo argument to.tend to?
 
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#1,348
#1,348
BadJerry20 said:
Do you want to tall experience or appearance? You keep switching when I counter your argument. I think most MMA guys base it off of talent and experience not physical appearance. Bob Sapp was scary most MMA were smart enough to know he would get smashed by a good fighter, same with Brock. You might go by appearance, but saying everyone does is just silly. Don't you have a Melo argument to.tend to?
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Brock won the title, btw. I don't know how he even factors into this conversation.

Clint had 2 fights...2 fights. He was the 2nd biggest guy in the house. Luke was the biggest. How many seasons have you watched? There seems to be a clear pattern.

The only reason I brought up experience is because you said you didn't pick Kelvin because he was the least experienced. My point is others are inexperienced but they have size so their value didn't discounted like Kelvin's did.

Kelvin has a ton of talent that nobody could see because they couldn't get past his size. Chael can't even explain it. His assessment of him yesterday was ridiculously stupid, something like: "He doesn't do anything all that well, but he's effective. He's good at getting his hand raised." That's gold right there.
 
#1,349
#1,349
n_huffhines said:
Brock won the title, btw. I don't know how he even factors into this conversation.

Clint had 2 fights...2 fights. He was the 2nd biggest guy in the house. Luke was the biggest. How many seasons have you watched? There seems to be a clear pattern.

The only reason I brought up experience is because you said you didn't pick Kelvin because he was the least experienced. My point is others are inexperienced but they have size so their value didn't discounted like Kelvin's did.

Kelvin has a ton of talent that nobody could see because they couldn't get past his size. Chael can't even explain it. His assessment of him yesterday was ridiculously stupid, something like: "He doesn't do anything all that well, but he's effective. He's good at getting his hand raised." That's gold right there.
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What was Brock's record?
Guess what huff, I don't pick the fighters. I said I don't go buy appearance, so the past season argument doesn't matter. I never said people don't do it, I said I don't.


Kelvin was the most inexperienced fighter in the house period. You dont just base experience on amount of pro fights.
 
#1,350
#1,350
I still don't get why we're talking about Brock. First of all, he was the champ. Second, he had health issues.

Clint has a boxing background, and Kelvin has a wrestling base...typically boxers don't have much experience that translates. I still think Clint was the most inexperienced. Definitely among the least experienced (can you at least agree on that?). He was Jones' top pick.
 
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