UNC and Duke Basketball, 2015-16

#776
#776
Not including incoming freshmen, there have been 14 McDonald's All-American Game MVPs in the one-and-done era. 9 were one-and-done (Durant, Beasley, Okafor, etc.).

Of the 5 that had to stay in school, 3 were the only 3 Carolina guys (Barnes, McAdoo, Jackson).

12 of those 14 have gone through the draft process. McAdoo is one of only two (Chase Budinger) that weren't first-round picks, and is the only one to go undrafted.

#RIPDraftStock
 
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#777
#777
I happen to think that Justin Jackson improved his game tremendously in the final month or two of the season.

I also happen to think that ten years from now, when K finally stops coaching Duke and USA Basketball, UNC will be back to kicking Duke's ass on a regular basis.

The Institute for New Jersey's Ivy League Rejects and Other Kids Who Play Ball Good will never truly have the heart of the people, despite the changing winds and the ebbing tides.
 
#778
#778
volprof said:
I happen to think that Justin Jackson improved his game tremendously in the final month or two of the season.

I also happen to think that ten years from now, when K finally stops coaching Duke and USA Basketball, UNC will be back to kicking Duke's ass on a regular basis.

The Institute for New Jersey's Ivy League Rejects and Other Kids Who Play Ball Good will never truly have the heart of the people, despite the changing winds and the ebbing tides.
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Very good Professor, but the #'s speak for themselves. Roy and his staff are not putting guys in the pros the way UNC once did. Honestly, they have not put any superstars into the NBA since Guthridge was coach.
 
#779
#779
RDU VOL#14 said:
Very good Professor, but the #'s speak for themselves. Roy and his staff are not putting guys in the pros the way UNC once did. Honestly, they have not put any superstars into the NBA since Guthridge was coach.
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Justin Jackson may have won the co-MVP one of the years being referenced, but he was hardly a "shoo-in" for the lottery. I think most services had him ranked around 10, and that's not including foreign players. He was always going to be a project. Now, Harrison Barnes, that is another story, but he never claimed he was going to leave early either. While UNC has seemed to underperform lately in the draft and in the league, Brice Johnson is just as good a success story as any I have seen lately. He came in ranked in the 20s-40s in most services and has played himself into being a mid- to late- first rounder most likely. Cal and K are chucking them into the league as of late, but it's hard for me to give credit to a coach for one year's tutelage. The later success of the player in such a scenario is probably due much more to previous coaching experiences and his own raw talent/practice than it is to one year's guidance from a college coach.

Also, I don't know how true it is, because it's not something I care enough about to fact check, but I've read that the average recruiting ranking for this past season's Duke team was higher than this past season's UNC team, including more five star players, despite the narrative all season long being the "supremely talented UNC team" and "the reloading Duke team." Like I said, I don't know if that's true or not, as I don't care enough to take the time to analyze the numbers.
 
#785
#785
Lol. "They may have just won a national title, but they haven't won the regular season since they won that other recent national title!"

Classic UNC.
 
#786
#786
volprof said:
Justin Jackson may have won the co-MVP one of the years being referenced, but he was hardly a "shoo-in" for the lottery. I think most services had him ranked around 10, and that's not including foreign players. He was always going to be a project. Now, Harrison Barnes, that is another story, but he never claimed he was going to leave early either. While UNC has seemed to underperform lately in the draft and in the league, Brice Johnson is just as good a success story as any I have seen lately. He came in ranked in the 20s-40s in most services and has played himself into being a mid- to late- first rounder most likely. Cal and K are chucking them into the league as of late, but it's hard for me to give credit to a coach for one year's tutelage. The later success of the player in such a scenario is probably due much more to previous coaching experiences and his own raw talent/practice than it is to one year's guidance from a college coach.

Also, I don't know how true it is, because it's not something I care enough about to fact check, but I've read that the average recruiting ranking for this past season's Duke team was higher than this past season's UNC team, including more five star players, despite the narrative all season long being the "supremely talented UNC team" and "the reloading Duke team." Like I said, I don't know if that's true or not, as I don't care enough to take the time to analyze the numbers.
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I disagree with you here. I read a column or tweet by an ESPN reporter, maybe Chad Ford, who said in an interview at the NBA Draft Combine that Brandon Ingram was asked by a GM or scout to draw up a play for himself in an end of game situation and did a phenomenal job. That's coaching right there and probably some of Coach K's doing. Coach K understands how to make these guys successful in the league which is why so few of Coach K's one-and-done's have been busts. Yes, they're talented, but K takes their game to a whole new level, something Ole Roy doesn't do.
 
#787
#787
kid50 said:
I disagree with you here. I read a column or tweet by an ESPN reporter, maybe Chad Ford, who said in an interview at the NBA Draft Combine that Brandon Ingram was asked by a GM or scout to draw up a play for himself in an end of game situation and did a phenomenal job. That's coaching right there and probably some of Coach K's doing. Coach K understands how to make these guys successful in the league which is why so few of Coach K's one-and-done's have been busts. Yes, they're talented, but K takes their game to a whole new level, something Ole Roy doesn't do.
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How do you account for the general lack of NBA success of most Duke/Coach K alums? I'm not saying that Roy has been churning them out to the league. That's not the case, and wasn't really the case for him at Kansas either.
 
#788
#788
kid50 said:
I disagree with you here. I read a column or tweet by an ESPN reporter, maybe Chad Ford, who said in an interview at the NBA Draft Combine that Brandon Ingram was asked by a GM or scout to draw up a play for himself in an end of game situation and did a phenomenal job. That's coaching right there and probably some of Coach K's doing. Coach K understands how to make these guys successful in the league which is why so few of Coach K's one-and-done's have been busts. Yes, they're talented, but K takes their game to a whole new level, something Ole Roy doesn't do.
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Funny you bring up an end of game situation, I seem to remember a game where a team completely seemed incompetent in their end of game situational offense. Not the first time nor the last.
 
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#789
#789
Regulator said:
How do you account for the general lack of NBA success of most Duke/Coach K alums? I'm not saying that Roy has been churning them out to the league. That's not the case, and wasn't really the case for him at Kansas either.
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I'm so tired of the myth that K's players don't produce in the league. That's so false. No Duke player has been a bust or not successful since the 2010 draft and the only player that didn't have success was Nolan Smith. Singler has faded ever since he was traded but was solid with the Pistons. No recent one-and-done has not had success. Heck, even the Plumlee brothers had made nice careers for themselves. Every Duke player as of late has had success, it may take them a couple years like Austin Rivers, but there are so many Duke players producing in the league right now and you can't deny that. Sure, there may be a bust here and there, but for the most part Duke players are producing the league and very few don't have success.
 
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#792
#792
kid50 said:
I'm so tired of the myth that K's players don't produce in the league. That's so false. No Duke player has been a bust or not successful since the 2010 draft and the only player that didn't have success was Nolan Smith. Singler has faded ever since he was traded but was solid with the Pistons. No recent one-and-done has not had success. Heck, even the Plumlee brothers had made nice careers for themselves. Every Duke player as of late has had success, it may take them a couple years like Austin Rivers, but there are so many Duke players producing in the league right now and you can't deny that. Sure, there may be a bust here and there, but for the most part Duke players are producing the league and very few don't have success.
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K has 20 former players currently in the league, Roy has 19. It may get to 21/all after the draft, but I'm skeptical of Paige getting drafted. Your recent run of one-and-done guys were heading to the league, regardless of where they went to school. K has a system that he can bend to their skill sets and the exposure of playing for the Duke program never hurts. He's not exactly turning water into wine, but he is kicking ass on the recruiting trail. I can't argue that.
 
#793
#793
Regulator said:
K has 20 former players currently in the league, Roy has 19. It may get to 21/all after the draft, but I'm skeptical of Paige getting drafted. Your recent run of one-and-done guys were heading to the league, regardless of where they went to school. K has a system that he can bend to their skill sets and the exposure of playing for the Duke program never hurts. He's not exactly turning water into wine, but he is kicking ass on the recruiting trail. I can't argue that.
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Probably 21-20 after Hansbrough gets released.
 
#794
#794
Regulator said:
Your recent run of one-and-done guys were heading to the league, regardless of where they went to school. K has a system that he can bend to their skill sets and the exposure of playing for the Duke program never hurts. He's not exactly turning water into wine, but he is kicking ass on the recruiting trail.
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I'm not sure Tyus Jones was an NBA player no matter what. In fact, I don't think he'd be a first round pick if he had stayed another year or if he didn't win a national title (and MOP).

Also, someone like Miles Plumlee definitely wasn't expected to be a first round pick.
 
#795
#795
Regulator said:
Your recent run of one-and-done guys were heading to the league, regardless of where they went to school.
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I just don't think that's true. It still takes good coaching for guys to be one-and-dones and be picked in the lottery. Sure, guys can be projected to be one-and-dones and declare for the draft if they have it in their mind that that's what they wanna do, but with poor coaching they're not going to be drafted high or at all - see Cliff Alexander. MSU guard Mailik Newman announced today he's transferring and has elected to sit out a year instead of get paid in the NBA by declaring, he was once thought as a lottery pick but didn't receive quality coaching. Other examples as you guys know are Harrison Barnes and Justin Jackson - both top 10 recruits thought to be lottery picks. Guys choose Coach K bc they know if they're a one-and-done type talent he will coach them up to ensure they can be drafted after one year and usually in the lottery. Yes, they are great talents before they get to Duke, but Coach K is taking that talent a step further and developing them into more well-rounded players.
 
#796
#796
VKAman said:
I'm not sure Tyus Jones was an NBA player no matter what. In fact, I don't think he'd be a first round pick if he had stayed another year or if he didn't win a national title (and MOP).

Also, someone like Miles Plumlee definitely wasn't expected to be a first round pick.
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Forgot about Tyus already... Similar to Ennis from Syracuse... Good in college, but not NBA material
 
#797
#797
AV_12 said:
Forgot about Tyus already... Similar to Ennis from Syracuse... Good in college, but not NBA material
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You shouldn't have, he roasted 4 year player Marcus Paige last year. But then again Quin Cook did as well.
 
#799
#799
It pains me to say this, but Kyrie Irving was amazing for Cleveland. Glad we never had to deal with him!
 
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#800
#800
Chuckie said:
It pains me to say this, but Kyrie Irving was amazing for Cleveland. Glad we never had to deal with him!
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Sucks that he never had the opportunity to cross up Kendall Marshall. Slow clap for the Black Falcon thinking he could get a max contract after this season. Barnes just lost 10's of millions of $$$ over the course of 3 games.
 
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