unemployment up to 9.6%

#251
#251
utgibbs said:
There is a deep mythos in America about the 'burbs. Most of it stems from the state of the cities a la Sinclair Lewis - dirty, stinky, squalor, etc. The City wasn't for "decent" folks. Manifest destiny as well, blah, blah. However, just as the car and tire companies in the 1930s conspired to take rail out, Capital Accumulation desperately needed SUBURBIA, lest it sink into crisis.

I'm not sure the point of this ramble, but to pretend that the flight from Urban America to Suburban America was about preservation of a striated capital environment is senseless. My parents moved specifically because you can't raise a family and use the schools in Nashville, but they couldn't afford private schooling. There were 4,000 other reasons to stay the hell out of the cities then, but that was a main driver. Your conspiracy regarding the removal of the rail systems sounds like regurgitated silliness. If it's not, I feel sorry for you.

Right now, Americans flock to Main Street USA, Orlando to remember what walkable, liveable community feels like. And Mr Pizza Delivery (sorry, I forgot your avatar) has probably never been on a train in his life. Hell, not a few military personnel when they get out stay in Europe because of those types of communities. I don't even think they know why most of the time, and they can ramble when asked, but I think it can be summarized as QoL.

People aren't flocking to Orlando to feel it. I assume you're trying to sell Celebration as the hallmark of walkable communities, but it isn't. Most of the New Urbanists do a very good job with the product and it appeals to many different people, but the groups who hate it are equally large and as adamant that it blows. The hype around your version of community is largely contrived and marketing heavy.

So, if they had the choice, a lot of Americans (remember Jerry Reed!) would choose trains and walkable communities. But most have never been exposed to either.
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see bold.

No, MOST of Americans would not choose Urbanism as a way of life. Many would and many would not. All the planners, architects and environutjobs can pretend all they would like, but it's not going to change the reality that Americans are a diverse group and there is no single product going to work for any huge swath of them.
 
#252
#252
MG1968 said:
Bulgaria is the same size as Tennessee.

The US has over 140 thousand miles of standard gauge rail lines, Bulgaria has just over 2000 miles and the US rail system moves 10 times the amount of freight as the whole European Union.
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it's the same as asking why the US doesn't have a 1Gbps broadband nationwide since Japan can do it
 
#253
#253
BigPapaVol said:
see bold.

No, MOST of Americans would not choose Urbanism as a way of life. Many would and many would not. All the planners, architects and environutjobs can pretend all they would like, but it's not going to change the reality that Americans are a diverse group and there is no single product going to work for any huge swath of them.
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it's an age issue BPV. When i was right out of college the thought of living anywhere where i couldn't get hammered and walk home was unthinkable. now i have different priorities and i don't mind a drive for a house 100% larger and a yard/pool.
 
#254
#254
droski said:
it's an age issue BPV. When i was right out of college the thought of living anywhere where i couldn't get hammered and walk home was unthinkable. now i have different priorities and i don't mind a drive for a house 100% larger and a yard/pool.
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and that's the bottom line. It's generally a stage of life issue. Many of the New Urbanist planners, I believe Calthorpe is the main outfit in Cali, have tried hard to incorporate a very family oriented approach to their communities, but in the end, many parents / future parents just aren't interested. All the stuff people love about TND is awesome, depending upon the family situation. Suburbia is really about families with kids in the house. If communities can find a way to satisfy that need in young families, they'll have a better community mix, but it's a tough tradeoff.
 
#255
#255
yes I have, numerous times. Its similar to flying, time wise (due to security) but more crowded.

The only problem is that it runs on electricity which might upset you because electricity isnt produced with pixie dust and fairy tales
 
#256
#256
BigPapaVol said:
see bold.

No, MOST of Americans would not choose Urbanism as a way of life. Many would and many would not. All the planners, architects and environutjobs can pretend all they would like, but it's not going to change the reality that Americans are a diverse group and there is no single product going to work for any huge swath of them.
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Great American streetcar scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Railcar conspiracy. I thought we wanted to get off foreign oil.......

It's funny because I've been writing about an essay I wrote in 4 - 5th grade where I wanted Clarksville to grow and merge into Nashville - an orgy of pastiche development. Of course, I've spent some time thinking why did I have this vision, this dream. It's hideous, and of course, it's mostly true now.

Anyway, there is a lot of variety to walkable communities. It's certainly not Ma Bell's Black Telephone. It's not "You can have the Model T in whatever color you like, so long as it's black...."

I note my ex-military friends in Europe. Again, they can't put their finger on it, but walkable communities enhance their QoL. Let's think about the great American urban places: French Quarter, Charleston, Savanah, even NYC - all walkable liveable communities.
 
#258
#258
VolsNSkinsFan said:
yes I have, numerous times. Its similar to flying, time wise (due to security) but more crowded.

The only problem is that it runs on electricity which might upset you because electricity isnt produced with pixie dust and fairy tales
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Fantastic.

You may be surprised to hear this from me, but electricity can be supplied by nuclear energy.

Zero illusions. I want to keep the lights on, and nuclear is the only sensible way. And the French are one up on us there too!
 
#259
#259
utgibbs said:
I note my ex-military friends in Europe. Again, they can't put their finger on it, but walkable communities enhance their QoL. Let's think about the great American urban places: French Quarter, Charleston, Savanah, even NYC - all walkable liveable communities.
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in europe those living in the walkable communities tend to be young professionals and empty nesters. no different than the US.
 
#260
#260
utgibbs said:
Great American streetcar scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Railcar conspiracy. I thought we wanted to get off foreign oil.......

It's funny because I've been writing about an essay I wrote in 4 - 5th grade where I wanted Clarksville to grow and merge into Nashville - an orgy of pastiche development. Of course, I've spent some time thinking why did I have this vision, this dream. It's hideous, and of course, it's mostly true now.

Anyway, there is a lot of variety to walkable communities. It's certainly not Ma Bell's Black Telephone. It's not "You can have the Model T in whatever color you like, so long as it's black...."

I note my ex-military friends in Europe. Again, they can't put their finger on it, but walkable communities enhance their QoL. Let's think about the great American urban places: French Quarter, Charleston, Savanah, even NYC - all walkable liveable communities.
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Weird story.

As to the livable towns: seriously? Freaking Savannah? Small piece of livable then a crime ridden cesspool. You don't really think that is the exhaustive list of great American urban places. Walking / public transit is part and parcel to urban life. Many leave it for exactly that reason. I'm a believer in the New Urbanist movement, but I don't remotely buy the BS that the world views the QoL as markedly better. The QoL debate is very personal and isn't often about community and all the buzzword jargon that the New Urbanists spout about. It's a tougher spot to raise kids and that isn't going to change.
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#261
#261
droski said:
in europe those living in the walkable communities tend to be young professionals and empty nesters. no different than the US.
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And that is the gospel truth. Tight quarters work for certain lifestyles and is anathema to others.
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#262
#262
droski said:
in europe those living in the walkable communities tend to be young professionals and empty nesters. no different than the US.
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No, it tends to be the whole continent.

In the UK I believe they call them DINKYs:

Dual Income No Kids Yet.

Speaking of family, note my avatar. I know all about raising kids, and I raise them in a walkable community, and I've had to work like heck and study the film to be able to do it!
 
#263
#263
BigPapaVol said:
And that is the gospel truth. Tight quarters work for certain lifestyles and is anathema to others.
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Get real. If you were in the Army, I know you've been to Kaiserslauten. Are you telling me that's not a walkable community?

And you are totally wrong, btw.
 
#264
#264
utgibbs said:
No, it tends to be the whole continent.

In the UK I believe they call them DINKYs:

Dual Income No Kids Yet.

Speaking of family, note my avatar. I know all about raising kids, and I raise them in a walkable community, and I've had to work like heck and study the film to be able to do it!
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are you really saying the whole continent is living in walkable communities? if so i'd suggest you haven't traveled much.

personally i think anyone raising kids in an urban environment is doing them a diservice. what's more important? your ability to walk to a bar/restuarant or their ability to actually have their own yard, a solid education, and own room and play areas?
 
#265
#265
utgibbs said:
No, it tends to be the whole continent.

In the UK I believe they call them DINKYs:

Dual Income No Kids Yet.

Speaking of family, note my avatar. I know all about raising kids, and I raise them in a walkable community, and I've had to work like heck and study the film to be able to do it!
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What? I don't care how you raise your kids, the demographics of the New Urbanist movement gravitate toward those two groups, regardless what they might try to sell you are what you might believe. In the true urban environments, those with younger kids who can afford, roll to the burbs.
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#266
#266
utgibbs said:
Get real. If you were in the Army, I know you've been to Kaiserslauten. Are you telling me that's not a walkable community?

And you are totally wrong, btw.
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I haven't been to Kaiserslauten. Don't care what it is. Been to Garmisch and all over Europe and don't find their urbanism any different.

Clearly your track record of calling people wrong and yourself right is long and distinguished.
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#267
#267
droski said:
are you really saying the whole continent is living in walkable communities? if so i'd suggest you haven't traveled much.

personally i think anyone raising kids in an urban environment is doing them a diservice. what's more important? your ability to walk to a bar/restuarant or their ability to actually have their own yard, a solid education, and own room and play areas?
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The majority of the continent is. Droski, their major cities were built BEFORE CARS. Of course they are living in walkable communities. Hell, you don't even have to get on the Tube to visit every major attraction of London - Europe's largest city!

I used to think like you, droski, but I've discovered kids like parks more than yards, like playing in pools with other kids, in other words, they like community too.

As for education, don't get me started!
 
#268
#268
BigPapaVol said:
I haven't been to Kaiserslauten. Don't care what it is. Been to Garmisch and all over Europe and don't find their urbanism any different.Posted via VolNation Mobile
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You cannot be serious. :jawdrop:

Why have you been to Garmish? What language do you speak?

worldonskis.comIndex.jpg


Garmish

athenspic.jpg


You should know. Now, this urbanism is the same? And I was trying to HELP your cause!
 
#269
#269
utgibbs said:
The majority of the continent is. Droski, their major cities were built BEFORE CARS. Of course they are living in walkable communities. Hell, you don't even have to get on the Tube to visit every major attraction of London - Europe's largest city!

I used to think like you, droski, but I've discovered kids like parks more than yards, like playing in pools with other kids, in other words, they like community too.

As for education, don't get me started!
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the majority of the population in the US lives in urban areas (or major cities) too. that's just statistics. i fail to see how london is any different than new york or chicago in this matter. travel in teh south of france or northern italy and you'll see many a community nowhere near walking distance of major amenities.

generally speaking you don't go to a park every day and i'm not sure cespool community pools are a plus. but hey, each to their own. to me it seems like a purely selfish decision on your part, but you have that right. you need to wake up and realize that people not being like you isn't bad it's just different.
 
#271
#271
utgibbs said:
You cannot be serious. :jawdrop:

Why have you been to Garmish? What language do you speak?

worldonskis.comIndex.jpg


Garmish

athenspic.jpg


You should know. Now, this urbanism is the same? And I was trying to HELP your cause!
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you're talking about and what is Garmish?
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#275
#275
BigPapaVol said:
I have no idea what you're talking about and what is Garmish?
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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I have no idea either, but that bottom picture is clearly a small town and not some major urban center. It almost looks like downtown LaFollette, TN.
 
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