United States, Cuba to normalize relations

#426
#426
hog88 said:
You should get out of your government issued history books and read alternative literature on the subject. There’s no conspiracy, we put nukes in Turkey and the Soviets responded by putting nukes in Cuba. End result was damn near WWIII until both sides backed down.
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:) Is that where Nikita Khrushchev took his shoe off & was banging it on his desk calling for America's destruction?
 
#427
#427
landscapingvol said:
Why would you gloss over South Korea, Japan, Germany, fall of the Soviet Union, Israel, etc. and jump to Iraq/Afghanistan? We never really tried to install democracies in either place other than propping up feckless regimes similar to South Vietnam. I am no supporter of foreign wars unless completely necessary. We should have never been in Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. That was the mistake not foolishly trying to prop up democracies
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All your examples of successes are older than my Dad and I'm nearly 40 (except for the USSR which is not an example of what I'm talking about). If we had a good track record intervening in my lifetime, I might feel differently.
 
#428
#428
n_huffhines said:
Well, I guess maybe I didn't understand what he meant by exporting democracy. If it encompasses this kind of interaction, then yeah.

When people say "export democracy" I think Iraq occupation, not Soviets watching reruns of Dallas.
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An idea is that when people in a controlled society start benefiting by having more stuff from trade, it will create momentum for them to have more markets and economic reforms. They'll see the system could be better, and want more.

How well this works in practice is debatable.
 
#429
#429
Velo Vol said:
An idea is that when people in a controlled society start benefiting by having more stuff from trade, it will create momentum for them to have more markets and economic reforms. They'll see the system could be better, and want more.

How well this works in practice is debatable.
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I fullheartedly believe that exchanging culture, media, entertainment, products, goods, services, etc. with despotic countries leads to better outcomes for them.

To me, the biggest difference between the 1st world and the 3rd world is property rights. Once property rights are established, other rights seem to follow. Basically, every government professes to protect property, but in many cases, they are ineffective (corruption, ineptitude) or they are in fact the perpetrators of the infractions on property rights. There is a positive relationship between wealth and property rights. Couple that with the exposure they get to our success, and to the ideas and attitudes that make us successful, it feels like it's inevitably going to get better. How much better? Who knows. China has proven to be an exception to some of these rules.
 
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#430
#430
And I should add, part of it is wealth can deliver property rights outside of what the government grants. For example, gating a community, security systems, and/or paying for private security guards. You can clean up your own neighborhood or business park, you don't have to wait for the government to do it.
 
#431
#431
n_huffhines said:
I fullheartedly believe that exchanging culture, media, entertainment, products, goods, services, etc. with despotic countries leads to better outcomes for them.

To me, the biggest difference between the 1st world and the 3rd world is property rights. Once property rights are established, other rights seem to follow. Basically, every government professes to protect property, but in many cases, they are ineffective (corruption, ineptitude) or they are in fact the perpetrators of the infractions on property rights. There is a positive relationship between wealth and property rights. Couple that with the exposure they get to our success, and to the ideas and attitudes that make us successful, it feels like it's inevitably going to get better. How much better? Who knows. China has proven to be an exception to some of these rules.
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There’s a great book the contrast between the USSR and China under Gorbachev and Xiaoping. China was able develop property rights more effectively than the USSR because Gorbachev was fighting an entrenched Soviet bureaucracy which caused the eventual attempted coup and breakup of the USSR.

 
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#432
#432
n_huffhines said:
I fullheartedly believe that exchanging culture, media, entertainment, products, goods, services, etc. with despotic countries leads to better outcomes for them.

To me, the biggest difference between the 1st world and the 3rd world is property rights. Once property rights are established, other rights seem to follow. Basically, every government professes to protect property, but in many cases, they are ineffective (corruption, ineptitude) or they are in fact the perpetrators of the infractions on property rights. There is a positive relationship between wealth and property rights. Couple that with the exposure they get to our success, and to the ideas and attitudes that make us successful, it feels like it's inevitably going to get better. How much better? Who knows. China has proven to be an exception to some of these rules.
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Yes. Post-Cold War, it seemed like it really helped in Eastern Europe. China has certainly liberalized economically, and benefited, but is still tightly controlled in other ways.

On the other hand, some of the uprisings in the Middle East (Arab Spring) fizzed out without much progress at all.

Uprisings are an unpredictable phenomenon. Hard to say what lies ahead for Cuba.
 
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#433
#433
Velo Vol said:
Yes. Post-Cold War, it seemed like it really helped in Eastern Europe. China has certainly liberalized economically, and benefited, but is still tightly controlled in other ways.

On the other hand, some of the uprisings in the Middle East (Arab Spring) fizzed out without much progress at all.

Uprisings are an unpredictable phenomenon. Hard to say what lies ahead for Cuba.
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Probably has something to do with our interventions. If we just left them alone and traded with them, it's a different world. Are you going to adopt western ideas and attitudes if your brother got blown up by a drone?
 
#437
#437
Velo Vol said:
Swing and miss.

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Sounds like somebody at BLM just figured out that socialism doesn't work. If there's nothing to tax, there's no "government" money for things like socialized medicine. The author was very wrong about one point, though. The Cuban government off-shores doctors for income - they generally aren't freebies.
 
#438
#438
Biden Reverses some Trump Policies Related to Cuba, making it easier for families to visit relatives in country
https://www.cnn.com/profiles/jennifer-hansler
https://www.cnn.com/profiles/kevin-liptak-profile

(CNN)The State Department on Monday announced a series of measures it said is aimed at supporting the Cuban people, including reinstating the Cuban Family Reunification Parole Program and increasing consular services and visa processing.

"We will make it easier for families to visit their relatives in Cuba and for authorized US travelers to engage with the Cuban people, attend meetings and conduct research," spokesperson Ned Price said in a statement.

The Biden administration is also lifting the family remittance cap of $1,000 per quarter "and will support donative remittances to Cuban entrepreneurs, both with the goal of further empowering families to support each other and for entrepreneurs to expand their businesses," Price said.

Biden reverses some Trump policies related to Cuba, making it easier for families to visit relatives in country - CNNPolitics
https://www.cnn.com/profiles/kevin-liptak-profile
 
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