USS destroyer sailing by chinese disputed islands

#202
#202
Grand Vol said:
Oh, but I'm the angry one.

You have zero respect for anyone in uniform if you constantly ignore their viewpoints and treat them like simpletons. Even those far more knowledgeable in these matters than you could possibly be. So don't try to play this "I respect and admire those that serve" when you act the way you do.

And by the way, I'm not that old.
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Ok. I'll say it this way. I respect People that respect others, including their point of views whether you like them or not.

Don't try to downplay people's opinion bc you served in the military. That makes you a vet and nothing more...
 
#204
#204
Rasputin_Vol said:
Where was this Western outrage when Britain illegally occupied Hong Kong? China colonizes a few atolls and The West gets apoplectic, yet Britain captures a mainland Chinese port and no one seems to see anything wrong.
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British occupation of Hong Kong was an agreement. The seizure of atolls is more concerning due to threats of war, stationing of military assets, strategic location, and China's history of heavy handed tactics. Oh and several countries staking a claim. Co pletely different situation.
 
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#205
#205
Rasputin_Vol said:
Crimea was given to Ukraine over 60 years ago during the Soviet Era. It was all still part of USSR then. Ukraine didn't become independent until the early 1990's, so even then, you are talking about 25 or so years of Ukrainian claims vs 200+ years of Russian claims. And even over the last 2 decades, Russia still had its only warm water port located in Crimea.

Crimea is as Russian as Hong Kong is Chinese...
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Russia had an agreement with Ukraine for use of the warm water port.
 
#206
#206
Rasputin_Vol said:
I disagree with this line of thinking anymore. We are going broke policing every corner of the earth and I'm not so sure right now that the people in charge have not soiled America's good name and used our military for nefarious motives. I wouldn't have said that 4-5 years ago, but it has become clear to me after Libya and now Syria that we are not being run by good guys anymore.
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That's the beauty of elections. Administrations change as does policy. We can only hope for a savy statesman to be elected next.
 
#207
#207
Pacer92 said:
I never downplayed anyones service. Attack me if you want...I've stated my claim. I'll shake any man's hand that has served this country.

Just dont attack and expect to be exempt...
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You can exempt me or not, do not care. The guys and gals are sent to do a job ask of them, whether we agree or not, and deserve 100% of our respect.
 
#209
#209
Rasputin_Vol said:
Oh stop it... I went through this at the time that was going on a few months ago. How the hell can you avoid not getting close to the Aleutians if you are trying to sail into the Bering Sea? There is almost no way to avoid it.
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The Spratlies aren't even China's territory and there was outrage. The US didn't get upset at China. That is the hypocrisy I am illustrating. Given China's history of heavy handed tactics, do you not think k that they would shut down that major sea lane to accomplish their goals if they had control of it?
 
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#212
#212
Rasputin_Vol said:
In retrospect, did Ukraine make the correct decision in moving West towards a collapsing EU and creating a military and political rift with its longtime neighbor?
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That's for the people of Ukraine to decide without the threat of military intervention.
 
#214
#214
Rasputin_Vol said:
Really?
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For the majority of our combat equipment, we are pretty far ahead of most of the other countries. Russian military innovation stalled for a little bit in the late 80s through the early 2000s. They are catching up but are not there yet.
 
#216
#216
Rasputin_Vol said:
None of the candidates on the GOP or Dem sides are going to change our foreign policy...
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Agreed. Most do not understand foreign policy or preach isolationism. The only hope is that they are smart enough to surround themselves with experts and listen to them.
 
#218
#218
SergeantVol said:
The Spratlies aren't even China's territory and there was outrage. The US didn't get upset at China. That is the hypocrisy I am illustrating. Given China's history of heavy handed tactics, do you not think k that they would shut down that major sea lane to accomplish their goals if they had control of it?
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Again, they would have nothing to gain by shutting down the sea traffic because they need trade going on in the region just as much as everyone else. China is just flexing its muscle in its corner of the world and realm of influence.

If you want to have something to worry about, I would be more concerned about a disruption of Red Sea traffic between Aden/Djbouti and/or Suez Canal. The countries and entities involved in this region have nothing to lose by blocking traffic in this area.
 
#220
#220
Rasputin_Vol said:
Again, they would have nothing to gain by shutting down the sea traffic because they need trade going on in the region just as much as everyone else. China is just flexing its muscle in its corner of the world and realm of influence.

If you want to have something to worry about, I would be more concerned about a disruption of Red Sea traffic between Aden/Djbouti and/or Suez Canal. The countries and entities involved in this region have nothing to lose by blocking traffic in this area.
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They would have something to gain. Control. They could effectively block trade from other countries with large manufacturing bases that could be potential competition. They could use this for more favorable trade agreements. The CCP's policy of mass subsidization of resources will soon end. Higher cost of living for Chinese citizens will end cheap labor practices, which will in turn take awaymchinas competitive advantage of cheap labor.
 
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#223
#223
SergeantVol said:
They would have something to gain. Control. They could effectively block trade from other countries with large manufacturing bases that could be potential competition. They could use this for more favorable trade agreements. The CCP's policy of mass subsidization of resources will soon end. Higher cost of living for Chinese citizens will end cheap labor practices, which will in turn take awaymchinas competitive advantage of cheap labor.
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No one has more manufacturing capacity right now than China... and most of that in the future will be redirected from satisfying demands of other countries to serving their domestic needs. Raising labor rates won't matter if they are not focusing on exporting cheap widgets as a means to survive. They need raw materials and energy to do this. That is why they have made agreements with Iran (energy) and Russia (raw materials and energy).
 
#224
#224
Say China gets into a serious territorial dispute with Japan, the Philippines, Vietnam, Malaysia, or some other country in East Asia, as they are wont to do from time to time.

What's to keep the PLA Navy and its fake islands from shutting down the South China Sea shipping lanes in and out of one of these nations?

Perhaps China and the CCP are in a position now where they judge such actions to be unfavorable and therefore would not do them, but it remains a grave possibility, especially considering that the PRC is also wont to threaten Taiwan's sovereignty and statehood from time to time as well.

Despite what people like to believe and despite things like rational choice theory, humans are emotional animals. You have the second and now even third generation Chicom party elite governing now, all of who remember their daddies and grand daddies sitting them down on their laps as younguns and regaling them with the good ole' days of yore, when China was one unified state and how those uppity ROC bastards ruined the dream and broke thousands of years of Chinese history.

Never underestimate such deep-rooted history and emotion. People thought WWI couldn't happen either, because Europe was already too economically intertwined...in 1914!

China may or may not take the step that pushes too far, but given its sense of history, it would not surprise me if they did, but perhaps that's the Hobbesian in me.
 
#225
#225
SergeantVol said:
They would have something to gain. Control. They could effectively block trade from other countries with large manufacturing bases that could be potential competition. They could use this for more favorable trade agreements. The CCP's policy of mass subsidization of resources will soon end. Higher cost of living for Chinese citizens will end cheap labor practices, which will in turn take awaymchinas competitive advantage of cheap labor.
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This too.
 
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