UT Recruiting : Square Peg in a Round Hole....

#51
#51
g8terh8ter_eric said:
If a prospect is brought up to speed on what the team actually has, the depth chart can sell itself first for the immediate contributors to get on the field faster. The NC has its draw, but there are many prospect who won't have the patience to wait 2+ years to play.
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Good point.
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#53
#53
Either Dooley will be a great hire or a terrible hire. For some reason, I don't see an in-between.
 
#54
#54
We have had playing time available in spades at DT and on the OL for the last couple of years, but aren't exactly reeling in the biggest guys at those positions...

Overall, I am willing to give Dooley 3 or 4 years and see what he can do, though. Frankly, that's the hand we were dealt when Kiffin left.
 
#55
#55
I have a feeling Dooley will have to earn a 4th year in 2012. I don't think it will be handed to him. If he doesn't earn it will be impossible for MH to retain his job...if he lasts that long.
 
#56
#56
using Saban's rebuild at Bama as a comparison for what should be expected of Dooley at UT is laughable. Dooley stepped into an absolute disaster, of which most coaches would not come near, and he is still getting some good kids to give us a look.
 
#57
#57
orange parmejohn said:
using Saban's rebuild at Bama as a comparison for what should be expected of Dooley at UT is laughable. Dooley stepped into an absolute disaster, of which most coaches would not come near, and he is still getting some good kids to give us a look.
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Bama was in a pretty bad situation when Saban was hired.

Comparing Saban to Dooley is the stupid thing to do right now. Eventually, maybe, highly doubtful, Dooley will be able to be compared to Saban and it not be a horrible comparison.
 
#58
#58
justingroves said:
Bama was in a pretty bad situation when Saban was hired.

Comparing Saban to Dooley is the stupid thing to do right now. Eventually, maybe, highly doubtful, Dooley will be able to be compared to Saban and it not be a horrible comparison.
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Bama started all frosh O-linemen and an either frosh QB or Juco QB with no years in the system, with only 75 players on the roster, a general lack of talent and depth at almost every position?
 
#59
#59
I see so many guys complaining that we aren't after the 5 star kids, and are simply "settling" for 2 and 3 star guys with IMHO an insinuation that those highly touted kids just don't see UT for it's greatness despite the recent down years. Last time I checked, Frank Beamer does a heck of a job at VA Tech without getting many 5 star kids(has gotten 1 in the past 5 years according to rivals and 18 4 stars out of 121 commits over that same span). Granted, it is more difficult to win in the SEC than ACC, but from what I've always thought of Beamer Ball it's pretty darn good overall. You know the old saying "Rome wasn't built in a day," well Greatness isn't built in one recruiting class. Dooley will have 3 years(and he should) to prove to me that he can or cannot get it done, but the fact that we are still building relationships after such a chaotic last few weeks of the 2010 class is a barrier that this staff is still working to remove. I'm not a Dooley apologist, but give the guy some time before we assume that we can't compete. Ripping him based on a few months of early recruiting is just not fair to him and this staff imo. Now, that being said, if we get to November or December in the same boat, then I'll start getting antsy and worried. Until then, I'm going to sit back and wait. We're in the top 5 of several high quality prospects, and for as early as it is for the staff w/out the established relationships, that is pretty good to me.
 
#60
#60
J:rock:ust watch how much better this TEAM will be than last year... just sayin...
GO VOLS!!!!!!:eek:k:
 
#61
#61
g8terh8ter_eric said:
I'd say Lane's hire was more like a tire patch, and Dooley's hire is more like getting a new brand of tire you are unfamiliar with... whose most recent history consists of blowouts on roads that are less demanding than the ones you drive.
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fyp... now, have a sense of humor, Eric.:)
 
#62
#62
You guys just kill me with "I'm willing to wait three or four years" bullsh$t.
Give it a rest. Like the rest of us you'll wait as long as it takes for the Vols to be back, if ever.
Is this your team or not? If so, you'll be here regardless of the win-loss record.
If not, get the hell off this board, and good riddance.
How about this: just for one day, all day, think positive about the team, the coaches that are here now, and the upcoming season.
Just try.
GO VOLS!
 
#64
#64
RollerVol said:
You guys just kill me with "I'm willing to wait three or four years" bullsh$t.
Give it a rest. Like the rest of us you'll wait as long as it takes for the Vols to be back, if ever.
Is this your team or not? If so, you'll be here regardless of the win-loss record.
If not, get the hell off this board, and good riddance.
How about this: just for one day, all day, think positive about the team, the coaches that are here now, and the upcoming season.
Just try.
GO VOLS!
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It will still be our/their team when Dooley is gone whether that's 1 or 20 years. The 'wait' part is about firing the coach, not giving up on the Vols.
 
#67
#67
Cartervol said:
That's why to me it's a puzzling hire. I was all for keeping Kippy as interim until a better time was available for a coaching search. It didn't end up bad though and Dooley pulled some good kids. Overall it's still not where we want it. Maybe Urban has another bout of insanity or someone backs a dump truck full of money up to Saban's door. I've been kind of guilty of tuning out here lately. I'm sick of the way things are run up there and i'm not writing them a check for a long time. Not until hammy's gone at least.
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That would gauruntee lackluster recruiting classes and extension of the rebuilding process. Dooley is a bit of a risk/reach with potential for bust or great upside...Kippy not so much. At the least I expect Dooley to leave us with a better roster than he inherited with smart disciplined athletes.

Kippy has had zero head coaching experience, life long assistant and wasn't even a coordinator his last few years in the NFL. Not sure why anyone would think Kippy was any kind of answer.
 
#68
#68
BigOrangeVol29 said:
I see so many guys complaining that we aren't after the 5 star kids, and are simply "settling" for 2 and 3 star guys with IMHO an insinuation that those highly touted kids just don't see UT for it's greatness despite the recent down years. Last time I checked, Frank Beamer does a heck of a job at VA Tech without getting many 5 star kids(has gotten 1 in the past 5 years according to rivals and 18 4 stars out of 121 commits over that same span). Granted, it is more difficult to win in the SEC than ACC, but from what I've always thought of Beamer Ball it's pretty darn good overall. You know the old saying "Rome wasn't built in a day," well Greatness isn't built in one recruiting class. Dooley will have 3 years(and he should) to prove to me that he can or cannot get it done, but the fact that we are still building relationships after such a chaotic last few weeks of the 2010 class is a barrier that this staff is still working to remove. I'm not a Dooley apologist, but give the guy some time before we assume that we can't compete. Ripping him based on a few months of early recruiting is just not fair to him and this staff imo. Now, that being said, if we get to November or December in the same boat, then I'll start getting antsy and worried. Until then, I'm going to sit back and wait. We're in the top 5 of several high quality prospects, and for as early as it is for the staff w/out the established relationships, that is pretty good to me.
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I could live with Beamer style ball.
 
#69
#69
justingroves said:
Bama was in a pretty bad situation when Saban was hired.

Comparing Saban to Dooley is the stupid thing to do right now. Eventually, maybe, highly doubtful, Dooley will be able to be compared to Saban and it not be a horrible comparison.
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Although Bama was not loaded with talent they still had a lot of quality players. Areneas for example...... Dooley has a much harder task than Saban. I agree that you can not even begin to compare the two coaches or programs. Shula had talent he just was not the best coach. Was Shula loaded no. But the fact that we lost to Shula with Fulmer and our so called good classes was a sign of where our program was going. I knew then we were in trouble. We have been on a decline for a decade and that is something you can not fix in 2-3 years.
 
#70
#70
Cartervol said:
Phil needed to go after 2001 in my opinion. It's been a slow decline ever since. Yeah they made a few championship games but rarely because we earned it. They backed their way into most of them. It baffles me that a university that makes the majority of its money off football could screw it up so bad. Someone got too busy counting dollars and forgot about the only thing that is important, winning.
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Agree but irrelevent. Fulmer was a great political operator and had established strong ties with the top money guys and he had built up strong collateral with the strong run up through the championship in 1998. He set himself up to get all the rope he wanted until it finally strangled him in 2008.
 
#71
#71
MADISONGAVOL said:
Although Bama was not loaded with talent they still had a lot of quality players. Areneas for example...... Dooley has a much harder task than Saban. I agree that you can not even begin to compare the two coaches or programs. Shula had talent he just was not the best coach. Was Shula loaded no. But the fact that we lost to Shula with Fulmer and our so called good classes was a sign of where our program was going. I knew then we were in trouble. We have been on a decline for a decade and that is something you can not fix in 2-3 years.
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I agree. Shula had done a good job of quietly restocking the roster to the point it was ready for a great coach to take it to the next level.

Saban did not step into a rebuild job. The program at that point needed an upgrade in talent and major upgrade in coaching, but the roster was in much better shape than ours is currently.

Dooley has not earned the right yet to be compared to Saban. It's great that Saban was his mentor and speaks highly of him, but it means nothing until Dooley can get this team back to competing at the top of the SEC.
 
#72
#72
I agree, everyone wants to compare TENN and BAMA and it is just not realistic. We are so far behind the bell curve in talent the comparison is laughable. The problem with the Vols right now is that we are lacking talent in the most important positions on both sides of the ball. Meaning OL and DL and unfortunately those are positions that require significant time to contribute to in the SEC. I honestly think our skill positions are not too far off from being very solid.
 
#73
#73
g8terh8ter_eric said:
As we have all seen, Dooley's recruiting plan may not be geared towards the less patient fan at all, but in fact patience is something that we need to get our arms around because this isn't going to be an easy task to get UT back to the top of the SEC, where it belongs in this fan's eyes. I want to take a bit to examine some of Coach Dooley's quotes from a recent GVX article, which seem to be misinterpreted by some of our members at best.

Quote #1
This quote probably doesn't sit well with the "I want it now" crowd, but Coach Dooley is exactly right where he is going with the recruiting process. We want to form classes that can be accountable with one another, and that will mesh in character and ability together. That doesn't mean that we take all marginal players or blue chippers, instead I think it means that you take players that can motivate one another to be better everyday.

Quote #2
Once again, Coach Dooley is right on the money with this quote. All he is saying here is you take some risks with the higher rated guys because of potential, but you don't take the same risks with the lower tier guys, because it's not worth the risk if they aren't going to help you in some aspect of the game.

Quote #3
Here is one that can be quickly misinterpreted without thinking about it first. All he is saying here is that he wants players to bleed orange, highly rated or not. He wants leaders, not followers, and that's what a team sport is about.

Quote #4
Yet again, Dooley is sending the message that he doesn't want kids who don't want to be a part of a program from the get go. He wants kids that will be here for the right reasons, not just to get to the league, which this staff has plenty of practice providing that service as well. He wants to recruit the RIGHT kids to UT, and that's going to be a balance of risk and character.

Quote #5
I love this in a coach. He doesn't care what people think, instead he wants to work and prove himself. Winning the opinion poll didn't work for this team last year, as they finished 7-6 and had more mishaps and violations than they did wins. Coach Dooley wants to work for approval, and has done this all his life by making his own way, which some of our fans don't agree because of his last coaching gig in the WAC. Coach Dooley will work for UT, not himself, as he understands that you must make the school the focal point of recruiting, and not the coaches.

So, in all reality, Coach Dooley is not looking for square peg in a round hole, but is instead looking for the best fit in players for this team and this school. I have seen plenty of highly rated kids never contribute here at UT in the past few years, and honestly I am tired of it. Yet, we will have a walk-on as our starting MLB, and one of our former coaches seemed to think that he had NFL ability. So, it's all going to be a balancing act, and finding those players that fit well together, highly rated and character guys alike. So, be patient, and even if Coach Dooley doesn't work out over time, at least some stability can somewhat be brought back to The Hill.

Have a great rest of the evening VN. :hi:
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Very nice Eric
:good!: :thumbsup:
 
#74
#74
g8terh8ter_eric said:
Quote #4
Yet again, Dooley is sending the message that he doesn't want kids who don't want to be a part of a program from the get go. He wants kids that will be here for the right reasons, not just to get to the league, which this staff has plenty of practice providing that service as well. He wants to recruit the RIGHT kids to UT, and that's going to be a balance of risk and character.

:hi:
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You left out see Bryce Brown for example:
solve-bryce-brown-needs.jpg
 
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