UT under potential NCAA investigation for NIL

[DooleyOrangePants]

Scanning the filing, the TN AG is trying to take the NCAA's head off. If the NCAA has zero control over compensation and NIL, the Wild West gets even wilder.

No holds barred buying of players AND no restrictions on transfers. What could possibly go wrong?

That's exactly what they are going for. And like I said earlier, I'm an accelerationist on this issue because the NCAA has been completely incompetent and negligent in any regard on the topic of equal enforcement of their own rules and regulations.

I don't think we should kid ourselves that things will automatically be made better from all this going down against the NCAA - a lot remains unsettled, and we could see some really bad outcomes in certain scenarios - but the alternative is to keep the NCAA standing as it is, as corrupt and completely biased/incompetent as they are. And that's not an answer to this problem at all, in fact, I think it's much worse as it will preserve the status quo and coddle to the preferred parties in the landscape and things will get worse for everyone except the blue bloods or those that grease the skids of the machine.

NIL is real, it's here, and the NCAA is going to go to the grave trying to kill it. The moment the Sherman Antitrust Act was used in this filing, there was no coming back. The NCAA knows they aren't going to win against that.

 

[Vtonerider]

My friend who is a Judge had the take...

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Actually, i am ambiguous as to what happens to the NCAA in its furure.

As a non-alum (and lets face it, most collegiate fans aren't alums of the schools),do i care if these guys are considered amateurs or student athletes? Not really.

Players have been taking money for decades now but all turned blind eye to what they didnt want to see. This includes the holier than thou folks taking shots at UT right now, the NCAA and its officials, and the fans who lament pay for play/NIL.

As long as the team trots out wearing Tennesse Orange and have the name Volunteers, i will be rooting for them. It wont mstter to me if they are affiliated with a minor league system or a legit amateur system

But regardless of the governing body, i hope that it is fairly implemented with rules that arent ever changing and as difficult to discern as the US Tax Code.

I understand and I just like good football. I particularly like good football player by guys in Orange.

The employment issue creates the union issues and collective bargaining and a host of pro franchise issues. I don't think the university should run a pro franchise AND there's the issues with other school sports being treated equally if they stay connected to the school.

It's a massive change not just for UT but also for smaller schools. The financial burden of paying players is something UT can handle for football, basketball, and baseball, I suppose, but what of the track team, the swim team, etc.

Not to mention, what about a school like Tennessee Tech? Can they afford to pay players?

It gets messy quickly.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

I won’t accuse you of UNDERthinking this topic but that courtesy doesn’t extend to the OVER aspect. I cited European local teams solely to illustrate how lower schools can continuously operate and actually THRIVE better with local businesses allowed to directly contribute. Don’t delude yourself into thinking that college teams are going to abandon the auspice of amateurism. Just less hypocrisy in directly compensating their market value in a farm system for the next level.

The SCOTUS is extremely likely to abandon amateurism for the schools.

Justice Kavanaugh essentially stated that the "student athlete" model wouldn't pass an Antitrust Law test. He laid it out VERY clearly that the players were employees who were being exploited. Any Justice on the SCOTUS could've written to disagree with his assessment. None did.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

I understand and I just like good football. I particularly like good football player by guys in Orange.

The employment issue creates the union issues and collective bargaining and a host of pro franchise issues. I don't think the university should run a pro franchise AND there's the issues with other school sports being treated equally if they stay connected to the school.

It's a massive change not just for UT but also for smaller schools. The financial burden of paying players is something UT can handle for football, basketball, and baseball, I suppose, but what of the track team, the swim team, etc.

Not to mention, what about a school like Tennessee Tech? Can they afford to pay players?

It gets messy quickly.

All good questions, but I don't know if it's the dire outcome you paint is certain - especially if we see some guidelines and guardrails put up on the NIL space. There's been some whispers about a governing body of NIL collectives, not sure how serious or if it even got very far, but it would help level the playing field without the NCAA doing NCAA things and muddying it up and making a mess out of it.

There's a lot of ways that this could go, and I concede it could very well go the way you suggest. It's a real possibility. But I have to think that University of Tennessee doesn't want to get into the pro sports business, at least from a full-on finance and human resources standpoint. Neither do the states of Tennessee or Virginia. There are a lot of other possible outcomes that don't lead down the road you paint. Maybe this will neuter the NCAA, but neutering them means taking away the power they have left as an "enforcement body", so what happens then? Lots of questions with a lot of possible answers, but nothing certain.

 

[Orange defense]

Private jets used in NIL in 2021 was legal. There wasn’t any rules broken for image and likeness. You could also pay high school students in 2021, because the states passed that rule. There is no legs here for any college to be investigated.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

That's exactly what they are going for. And like I said earlier, I'm an accelerationist on this issue because the NCAA has been completely incompetent and negligent in any regard on the topic of equal enforcement of their own rules and regulations.

I don't think we should kid ourselves that things will automatically be made better from all this going down against the NCAA - a lot remains unsettled, and we could see some really bad outcomes in certain scenarios - but the alternative is to keep the NCAA standing as it is, as corrupt and completely biased/incompetent as they are. And that's not an answer to this problem at all, in fact, I think it's much worse as it will preserve the status quo and coddle to the preferred parties in the landscape and things will get worse for everyone except the blue bloods or those that grease the skids of the machine.

NIL is real, it's here, and the NCAA is going to go to the grave trying to kill it. The moment the Sherman Antitrust Act was used in this filing, there was no coming back. The NCAA knows they aren't going to win against that.

The question is what kind of organization can replace the NCAA? I'm unsure an organization can be created using the "student athlete" model without being immediately sued like the NCAA on Antitrust grounds....... and lose.

Past that, we have the formation of a pro sports league connected to the universities.

I'm not sure any of that is better.

I'm your exact opposite. I want the NCAA to die slowly because I don't see an alternative that looks anything like something the universities should be involved in.

Should the University of Tennessee own pro football, basketball, and baseball franchises?

 

[GetYouSomeofThat]

I understand and I just like good football. I particularly like good football player by guys in Orange.

The employment issue creates the union issues and collective bargaining and a host of pro franchise issues. I don't think the university should run a pro franchise AND there's the issues with other school sports being treated equally if they stay connected to the school.

It's a massive change not just for UT but also for smaller schools. The financial burden of paying players is something UT can handle for football, basketball, and baseball, I suppose, but what of the track team, the swim team, etc.

Not to mention, what about a school like Tennessee Tech? Can they afford to pay players?

It gets messy quickly.

Agreed that the less popular sports will suffer st the collegiate level if football and basketball pull away and that will not be great for those young athletes. Howver, IMO the athletes in football and basketball shouldnt have to suffer financial losses in order to support those other programs..

I dont know the solution but the NCAA seems to not have one either.

 

[Volfan39]

The question is what kind of organization can replace the NCAA? I'm unsure an organization can be created using the "student athlete" model without being immediately sued like the NCAA on Antitrust grounds....... and lose.

Past that, we have the formation of a pro sports league connected to the universities.

I'm not sure any of that is better.

I'm your exact opposite. I want the NCAA to die slowly because I don't see an alternative that looks anything like something the universities should be involved in.

Should the University of Tennessee own pro football, basketball, and baseball franchises?

Better than getting a death penalty. You’re making it sound like Tennessee should roll over and take their spanking and potentially lose everything. If the ncaa wants to mess with the bull they can get the freaking horns

 

[Delmar]

This jackass will not have the balls to post in this thread again. This was a classic hit and run post. He should be banned.

How boring must your life be that you are a Georgia fan trolling a Tennessee fan forum, Loser?

Had that good on Ignore months ago. Much easier that way.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

The question is what kind of organization can replace the NCAA? I'm unsure an organization can be created using the "student athlete" model without being immediately sued like the NCAA on Antitrust grounds....... and lose.

Past that, we have the formation of a pro sports league connected to the universities.

I'm not sure any of that is better.

I'm your exact opposite. I want the NCAA to die slowly because I don't see an alternative that looks anything like something the universities should be involved in.

Should the University of Tennessee own pro football, basketball, and baseball franchises?

In some respects, the University owns that type of organization in everything but name and legal status already. The football program alone is a well-oiled machine off the playing field & behind the scenes and a lot of their work rivals or trumps the work of their professional counterparts. It's not a far-flung notion to think they could manage such an organization because they already are in most of the ways that we would consider something "professional".

Would I want them to? Probably not. I went there and my son is currently enrolled and I'm sure there would be impacts that would be felt throughout the institution. And most importantly, how would it change that feeling of being part of the University of Tennessee on gameday? I'm not sure I would get the same feeling pulling for the "Tennessee Volunteers, affiliated franchise of the University of Tennessee."

Again, there were so many ways back from the brink on this entire NIL and paying players question. Many were tried and presented to the NCAA and they flat out refused to listen. They wanted full control of every aspect of practically everything involving the programs and the players in them. It's not like they weren't warned, they just thumbed their nose and NIL was the first domino to fall and it will be the last thing they hear as they fade into a footnote in history.

 

[Sara Clark]

Clay Travis speaks with Tennessee's Attorney General.

 

[sonofUT62]

Didn't FSU get hit with something like this recently and all they got was a slap on the wrist?

Having to disassociate from you NIL for a year doesn’t seem like a slap on the wrist.

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Better than getting a death penalty. You’re making it sound like Tennessee should roll over and take their spanking and potentially lose everything. If the ncaa wants to mess with the bull they can get the freaking horns

I'm not saying that at all. I fully support the state and Plowman in their response but you still have to look at what drawing the sword on the NCAA does AFTER you win.

With the NCAA gone, something will have to give. Let's assume the SEC and B1G and others start some kind of organization, they're still fighting the same Antitrust challenges as the NCAA unless they actually create a pro league.

That's hardly a solution.

Let's say the NCAA survives but NIL and transfers have zero restrictions. Essentially, it becomes the worst of pro sports without being pro sports. Nothing stops a team from tampering, buying players outright, wholesale free agency, etc.

It's a free for all with no sign of authority anywhere. There's no such thing at cheating and anything goes.

That's hardly a solution.

So what's your endgame after we kill the NCAA?

 

[DaddyChad]

Having to disassociate from you NIL for a year doesn’t seem like a slap on the wrist.

It’s basically a lost recruiting class by FSU standards.

 

[Volador]

Cold showers can be very therapeutic. Let's just hope this major cold shower is!

 

[cherokeeeVOL]

Having to disassociate from you NIL for a year doesn’t seem like a slap on the wrist.

Yeah I just read somewhere that they didn't get hit too hard. Sounds like that's not the case though.

 

[Volbrando]

I'm not saying that at all. I fully support the state and Plowman in their response but you still have to look at what drawing the sword on the NCAA does AFTER you win.

With the NCAA gone, something will have to give. Let's assume the SEC and B1G and others start some kind of organization, they're still fighting the same Antitrust challenges as the NCAA unless they actually create a pro league.

That's hardly a solution.

Let's say the NCAA survives but NIL and transfers have zero restrictions. Essentially, it becomes the worst of pro sports without being pro sports. Nothing stops a team from tampering, buying players outright, wholesale free agency, etc.

It's a free for all with no sign of authority anywhere. There's no such thing at cheating and anything goes.

That's hardly a solution.

So what's your endgame after we kill the NCAA?

how about an organization where the universities work together and agree on rules and standards

not an organization that opens pandora's box and has no control over anything but like to pretend they are big and bad

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

I'm not saying that at all. I fully support the state and Plowman in their response but you still have to look at what drawing the sword on the NCAA does AFTER you win.

With the NCAA gone, something will have to give. Let's assume the SEC and B1G and others start some kind of organization, they're still fighting the same Antitrust challenges as the NCAA unless they actually create a pro league.

That's hardly a solution.

Let's say the NCAA survives but NIL and transfers have zero restrictions. Essentially, it becomes the worst of pro sports without being pro sports. Nothing stops a team from tampering, buying players outright, wholesale free agency, etc.

It's a free for all with no sign of authority anywhere. There's no such thing at cheating and anything goes.

That's hardly a solution.

So what's your endgame after we kill the NCAA?

Make the NCAA do what it was chartered to do and set standards on EQUAL enforcement action with oversight and a full grievance and appeal procedure that guarantees a speedy and fair process. None of those things are being done today by the NCAA in any real degree. They do whatever they want, when they want, how they want. Put in fair rules on NIL and limit transfers within a reasonable threshold. Completely change the officiating and make it a performance based, full time position with vetted professionals.

So in other words, reform the NCAA entirely. Or kill it and put something else in its place that will actually do the job they were supposed to do but were negligent, sometimes criminally, in doing.

 

[GrayWaterCanine]

Your idea of support is not the same as mine.

You are right. I never considered lifting up sweaty nuts.

 

[Volbrando]

Make the NCAA do what it was chartered to do and set standards on enforcement action with oversight and a full grievance and appeal procedure that guarantees a speedy and fair process. None of those things are being done today by the NCAA in any real degree. They do whatever they want, when they want, how they want. Put in fair rules on NIL and limit transfers within a reasonable threshold. Completely change the officiating and make it a performance based, full time position with vetted professionals.

So in other words, reform the NCAA entirely. Or kill it and put something else in its place that will actually do the job they were supposed to do but were negligent, sometimes criminally, in doing.

100%

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

In some respects, the University owns that type of organization in everything but name and legal status already. The football program alone is a well-oiled machine off the playing field & behind the scenes and a lot of their work rivals or trumps the work of their professional counterparts. It's not a far-flung notion to think they could manage such an organization because they already are in most of the ways that we would consider something "professional".

Would I want them to? Probably not. I went there and my son is currently enrolled and I'm sure there would be impacts that would be felt throughout the institution. And most importantly, how would it change that feeling of being part of the University of Tennessee on gameday? I'm not sure I would get the same feeling pulling for the "Tennessee Volunteers, affiliated franchise of the University of Tennesse."

Again, there were so many ways back from the brink on this entire NIL and paying players question. Many were tried and presented to the NCAA and they flat out refused to listen. They wanted full control of every aspect of practically everything involving the programs and the players in them. It's not like they weren't warned, they just thumbed their nose and NIL was the first domino to fall and it will be the last thing they hear as they fade into a footnote in history.

I'm with you that the NCAA deserves to die and completely mismanaged player compensation.

The schools, also, were greedy and did everything they could to generate revenue from sports and that was NEVER the intent of college athletics.

Myself, as a fan, I get blame too. I wanted to see a heck of a lot of football on TV. When the Vols are on the road or when I was on the road, I wanted to be able to watch so I welcomed every increase in television and all the money that brought to the game. I wanted ALL the football I could get.

There's plenty of blame.

I'd like your son to enjoy feeling like UT is the home of the Vols and not just the place they rent and workout. There are schools that have never made a dime from sports and I hope those schools aren't "broad brushed" out of existence by the court system.

 

[Volbrando]

when do we make Donde-day an official TN holiday?

 

[SayUWantAreVOLution]

Make the NCAA do what it was chartered to do and set standards on enforcement action with oversight and a full grievance and appeal procedure that guarantees a speedy and fair process. None of those things are being done today by the NCAA in any real degree. They do whatever they want, when they want, how they want. Put in fair rules on NIL and limit transfers within a reasonable threshold. Completely change the officiating and make it a performance based, full time position with vetted professionals.

So in other words, reform the NCAA entirely. Or kill it and put something else in its place that will actually do the job they were supposed to do but were negligent, sometimes criminally, in doing.

You can't legally limit NIL. That's a legal issue beyond sports. You can't tell a person they can't sign autographs for money or do a commercial or whatever legally to earn money. You can't and you shouldn't in America. The NCAA allowed NIL after Alston because they knew they'd lose.

Again, the NCAA fought transfers and is currently losing in the courts in attempts to limit transfers.

Neither of those are failings of the NCAA. They went to court and lost or are losing. As incompetent as they are, they DID fight NIL to the end and lose.

And yes, there's a lot in the NCAA that's lousy that CAN be fixed.

The issues of NIL, wholesale transfers, and "players are employees" aren't in their control.

 

[DooleyOrangePants]

You can't legally limit NIL. That's a legal issue beyond sports. You can't tell a person they can't sign autographs for money or do a commercial or whatever legally to earn money. You can't and you shouldn't in America. The NCAA allowed NIL after Alston because they knew they'd lose.

Again, the NCAA fought transfers and is currently losing in the courts in attempts to limit transfers.

Neither of those are failings of the NCAA. They went to court and lost or are losing. As incompetent as they are, they DID fight NIL to the end and lose.

And yes, there's a lot in the NCAA that's lousy that CAN be fixed.

The issues of NIL, wholesale transfers, and "players are employees" aren't in their control.

That was poor wording on my part, and you are correct, limiting NIL is a non-starter for the most part and is the reason why the NCAA is in the mess they are in now because they are trying to find cute end-arounds to enforce limits (selectively) on NIL.