Vaccine or not?

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#17,001
 
#17,002
#17,002
ButchPlz said:
Holy hell that "study" is garbage. Did you even bother to open it? They deliberately selected studies almost entirely about hospitalized people, for one, then applied it across the general population. Their average age in the study was about 55. And studies of studies are usually heavily influenced by whatever bias the goobers in charge already have- it's not anything truly observational, it's just whatever these people had time to read on the toilet.

"Science" in this country is dead.
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Wonder what the baseline was for someone’s “anxiety”, attention span, and all the other other idiotic metrics were for pre-Covid? I’m sure the ones running the “study” had that documented before the subjects ever contracted Covid.
 
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#17,003
C-south said:
Wonder what the baseline was for someone’s “anxiety”, attention span, and all the other other idiotic metrics were for pre-Covid? I’m sure the ones running the “study” had that documented before the subjects ever contracted Covid.
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There is no baseline, that's the thing.

These people will make fun of things like VAERS data with all the bunk entered into it, then turn around and produce their own bunk.
 
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I think this has more to do with vaccinated being engaged in more social behavior vs the unvaxxed because of the area. To be fair
 
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Rasputin_Vol said:
But wait, I thought that got fact checked to death after the British study said the same thing?

PolitiFact - No, the COVID-19 vaccines do not cause AIDS

No, COVID-19 vaccines don’t cause HIV, AIDS or cancer | AP News

Covid-19 vaccines don’t cause ‘a form of AIDS’ - Full Fact

Now here is an interesting one... Fact check: An Australian vaccine trial did not give trial participants HIV
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I was surprised about the article and how damaging the virus could be. We still don't know. I fear in a couple of years we're going to see a lot of complications from all the shots and boosters
 
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#17,010
Djokovic's mother says her son is 'treated like a prisoner' in a 'dirty' hotel

When he arrived in Australia, the biggest diplomatic offense followed. He was then taken away and interrogated by border customs officers.
‘During the first 45 minutes, he was able to communicate with his family and team and then his phone was taken away and we could not speak with him for three and a half hours.’

He’s a prisoner.
 
#17,011
#17,011
I have had something stuck in my head now a couple days. People that don't want this shot are called "conspiracy theorists". But think of the amount of disbelief that has to be suspended to think these things are good.

Just to start...
You have to believe big pharma cares about you.
You have to believe the government cares about you.
You have to believe all the data is of sound quality.
You have to believe that the virus has a high chance of complications.
You have to believe that the vaccine works.
You have to believe the vaccine is totally safe.
You have to believe the "experts" in charge know what they're doing.
And at various times you've had to believe that the vaccine prevents transmission of the virus and protects you from getting it (now we know this was a lie).

Not believing any one of those things alone is enough to question the vaccine. So you have to suspend all of them, all at once. What's a bigger "conspiracy", then?
 
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#17,012
#17,012
ButchPlz said:
I have had something stuck in my head now a couple days. People that don't want this shot are called "conspiracy theorists". But think of the amount of disbelief that has to be suspended to think these things are good.

Just to start...
You have to believe big pharma cares about you.
You have to believe the government cares about you.
You have to believe all the data is of sound quality.
You have to believe that the virus has a high chance of complications.
You have to believe that the vaccine works.
You have to believe the vaccine is totally safe.
You have to believe the "experts" in charge know what they're doing.
And at various times you've had to believe that the vaccine prevents transmission of the virus and protects you from getting it (now we know this was a lie).

Not believing any one of those things alone is enough to question the vaccine. So you have to suspend all of them, all at once. What's a bigger "conspiracy", then?
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That one right there should have been the nail in the coffin, but now people come back with, "well, none of the experts said it would stop transmission"... or they try to gaslight you and say, "well who said that the vaccines would stop transmission or stop you from catching it?"
 
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#17,014
#17,014
Rasputin_Vol said:
That one right there should have been the nail in the coffin, but now people come back with, "well, none of the experts said it would stop transmission"... or they try to gaslight you and say, "well who said that the vaccines would stop transmission or stop you from catting it?"
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To me the nail in the coffin was the total protection granted to manufacturers. There's no need to go any further.
 
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kiddiedoc said:
Except they DON'T BLOCK OMICRON because the spike protein is heavily mutated.
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When this omicron stuff rolled out didn't they all even say "hey guys it'll be a few months before we get the updated formula!!!"

Now suddenly the messaging totally changes.

The short attention span of huge swaths of Americans is sickening.
 
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#17,020
#17,020
ButchPlz said:
I have had something stuck in my head now a couple days. People that don't want this shot are called "conspiracy theorists". But think of the amount of disbelief that has to be suspended to think these things are good.

Just to start...
You have to believe big pharma cares about you.
You have to believe the government cares about you.
You have to believe all the data is of sound quality.
You have to believe that the virus has a high chance of complications.
You have to believe that the vaccine works.
You have to believe the vaccine is totally safe.
You have to believe the "experts" in charge know what they're doing.
And at various times you've had to believe that the vaccine prevents transmission of the virus and protects you from getting it (now we know this was a lie).

Not believing any one of those things alone is enough to question the vaccine. So you have to suspend all of them, all at once. What's a bigger "conspiracy", then?
Click to expand...

I do believe the vaccine is worthwhile in the at risk populations. Elderly, multiple medical issues, etc. But even the initial data in the trials is pretty eye opening. When Pfizer said the vaccine was “95%” effective last year, that was based on a trial of around 43,000 people. Half got vaccine, half placebo. 162/21,500 people in the placebo group got Covid. 7/21,500 in vaccine group got Covid. So, 7/169 total cases is where the 95% comes from. But in reality, 99.6% of their total subjects never even got Covid, including 99.3% of the placebo group. So, out of the total, if you had placebo there was a 99.63% chance of not getting Covid and in the vaccine group a 99.98% chance of not getting it.

In fairness, those numbers were likely also skewed due to non-pharmaceutical interventions (social distancing/lockdowns/decreased capacities,etc). So in “real world” situations, the vaccines would likely show a more dramatic effect.

Again, the biggest screw up was marketing these as disease preventing vaccines. If they had been from the start shown as what they are….interventions to reduce severity of illness and death, then I think we’d be in a much better place.
 
#17,023
#17,023
newyorkvol said:
I do believe the vaccine is worthwhile in the at risk populations. Elderly, multiple medical issues, etc. But even the initial data in the trials is pretty eye opening. When Pfizer said the vaccine was “95%” effective last year, that was based on a trial of around 43,000 people. Half got vaccine, half placebo. 162/21,500 people in the placebo group got Covid. 7/21,500 in vaccine group got Covid. So, 7/169 total cases is where the 95% comes from. But in reality, 99.6% of their total subjects never even got Covid, including 99.3% of the placebo group. So, out of the total, if you had placebo there was a 99.63% chance of not getting Covid and in the vaccine group a 99.98% chance of not getting it.

In fairness, those numbers were likely also skewed due to non-pharmaceutical interventions (social distancing/lockdowns/decreased capacities,etc). So in “real world” situations, the vaccines would likely show a more dramatic effect.

Again, the biggest screw up was marketing these as disease preventing vaccines. If they had been from the start shown as what they are….interventions to reduce severity of illness and death, then I think we’d be in a much better place.
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That's kind of my point. Was that a blunder, or a deliberate misleading of the population? Either way, it's a horrible look and should cause any rational person to raise questions about a number of other things in the whole process. I don't think with this that you can admit one part of the response is a mess but others are fine because in general it's the same little bureaucracy making the decisions in this country.
 
#17,024
#17,024
whodeycin85 said:
Education doesn't equal intelligence...
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This!

Formal education can be a blessing and a curse.

Done right, one learns to examine, reflect, and critically think through ideas.

Done wrong, one learns to do nothing more than repeat talking points and treat their professors as God in the flesh.

I love academia. I’m currently pursuing a Ph.D. But “being good at school” does not equal intelligence. In many cases, it’s only an indicator of compliance.
 
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#17,025
#17,025
The argument against VAERS is the same argument that can be made for the available covid case, hospital and death data. Both sets are skewed. How much? Who truly knows. I'm not sure how we can efficiently react to disease and crisis when we can't trust the data from the medical field.
 
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