Vaccine or not?

[VolinWayne]

What was the chance of getting vaccine induced myocarditis for children?

Infection Fatality Rate of COVID-19 Was 0.0003 Percent At 0–19 Years: Study

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

I'm not attempting to mislead squat, you're just a disagreeable, argumentative person.

Athletes should be screened for CV side effects if they have been given the mRNA shots. That's it.

Aren't full cardio workups done during NFL combine and during physicals for free agents/trades? Would that be the screening needed?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

That there is a risk of myocarditis from the vaccine isn’t the issue I raised, but your attempt to mislead is noted.

What happens to those people that got both COVID and the jab? Do you think their risk level goes up or goes down?

 

[RockyTop85]

I'm not attempting to mislead squat, you're just a disagreeable, argumentative person.

Athletes should be screened for CV side effects if they have been given the mRNA shots. That's it.

I never said a single thing about that. I said that the risk of myocarditis from vaccines is less than the risk of myocarditis from Covid, a risk level which you have routinely said isn’t a cause for concern.

Your brittle ego predictably got touched off, just like it does every time anybody declines to give you the fawning adoration you come here seeking, and whined like one of your patients with a boo-boo about people saying it “couldn’t have been the vaccine,” which literally no post that I’ve written or read has actually posited.

What a perpetual victim. Cry more.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I never said a single thing about that. I said that the risk of myocarditis from vaccines is less than the risk of myocarditis from Covid, a risk level which you have routinely said isn’t a cause for concern.

Your brittle ego predictably got touched off, just like it does every time anybody declines to give you the fawning adoration you come here seeking, and whined like one of your patients with a boo-boo about people saying it “couldn’t have been the vaccine,” which literally no post that I’ve written or read has actually posited.

What a perpetual victim. Cry more.

Like I said

Good day

 

[RockyTop85]

Yeah... you muddied the waters early on when you created your strawman.



No one was making the argument that COVID is more likely to cause myocarditis. That was not the point of the discussion at all. It was about the dangers of the vaccine.

I didn’t muddy anything. IF the guy had myocarditis, it absolutely could have come from COVID rather than the vaccine. Everything I’ve read from any actual study and not some fragile message board clout chaser says it’s more likely to occur after a Covid infection and is most likely to occur in a Covid infection of an unvaccinated person.

Your posts make it seem like you’re unfamiliar with any of this, which is why I didn’t bother arguing with you the first time and won’t now.

 

[VolStrom]

I never said a single thing about that. I said that the risk of myocarditis from vaccines is less than the risk of myocarditis from Covid, a risk level which you have routinely said isn’t a cause for concern.

Your brittle ego predictably got touched off, just like it does every time anybody declines to give you the fawning adoration you come here seeking, and whined like one of your patients with a boo-boo about people saying it “couldn’t have been the vaccine,” which literally no post that I’ve written or read has actually posited.

What a perpetual victim. Cry more.

So is this in your medical opinion?

 

[kiddiedoc]

Aren't full cardio workups done during NFL combine and during physicals for free agents/trades? Would that be the screening needed?

They are, which makes this a perfect opportunity to screen for vaccine effects. If an athlete had a perfectly-normal EKG and echo initially then showed CV changes after taking the mRNA shots, it should cause significant alarm.

That's why vaccine manufacturers, government agencies, and those who pushed for mandates are not suggesting they be performed. There are dangers for them both legally and to their egos/guilty conscience, if cardiac effects are observed. The safer bet for them is to tell everyone the shots are perfectly safe, continue to steer MSM, and call anyone who asks questions "Q" or "Ultra-MAGA."

I can't believe so many buy this crap.

 

[RockyTop85]

So is this in your medical opinion?

My belief that vaccines are less likely to cause myocarditis than Covid infection is based on research that I’ve read. I am open to reading contradictory evidence but so far asking for that has only rustled jimmies.

My statements about individual posters are just personal opinions.

 

[VolStrom]

My belief that vaccines are less likely to cause myocarditis than Covid infection is based on research that I’ve read. I am open to reading contradictory evidence but so far asking for that has only rustled jimmies.

My statements about individual posters are just personal opinions.

I find anything published about covid vaccine safety to be skeptical at best due to the cover-ups that are starting to come to light about the vaccines. The entire truth may never come out, but I don't trust our government to tell us the truth about any damn thing they do.

 

[RockyTop85]

I find anything published about covid vaccine safety to be skeptical at best due to the cover-ups that are starting to come to light about the vaccines. The entire truth may never come out, but I don't trust our government to tell us the truth about any damn thing they do.

I’m probably not going to be persuaded by anything that uses generalized skepticism to selectively dismiss evidence, but I’m not telling you you’re wrong to be skeptical. I’m skeptical of the fact that a lot of the vaccine research is clearly done by people who had pre-existing opinions that match the outcome of their studies.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

They are, which makes this a perfect opportunity to screen for vaccine effects. If an athlete had a perfectly-normal EKG and echo initially then showed CV changes after taking the mRNA shots, it should cause significant alarm.

That's why vaccine manufacturers, government agencies, and those who pushed for mandates are not suggesting they be performed. There are dangers for them both legally and to their egos/guilty conscience, if cardiac effects are observed. The safer bet for them is to tell everyone the shots are perfectly safe, continue to steer MSM, and call anyone who asks questions "Q" or "Ultra-MAGA."

I can't believe so many buy this crap.

I would suspect between annual team physicals, free agent physicals, trade physicals, and combine physicals, NFL players have been screened pretty good. Would likely suspect that Hamlin has gone through at least 2 annual physicals and the combine since he was vaxxed...

To my knowledge, there's been very limited reported cardio issues the past 2 years and no trades or free agent signings derailed due to a failed cardio physical. I think Vinny Curry on the Jets had a blood issue caught during annual physical

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

I find anything published about covid vaccine safety to be skeptical at best due to the cover-ups that are starting to come to light about the vaccines. The entire truth may never come out, but I don't trust our government to tell us the truth about any damn thing they do.

Come to light??? It was obvious from the get go.

 

[Orangeburst]

Report: At Least 769 Recently Vaxxed Athletes Collapsed Last Year During Competition - Big League Politics

Sample size.

 

[kiddiedoc]

I would suspect between annual team physicals, free agent physicals, trade physicals, and combine physicals, NFL players have been screened pretty good. Would likely suspect that Hamlin has gone through at least 2 annual physicals and the combine since he was vaxxed...

To my knowledge, there's been very limited reported cardio issues the past 2 years and no trades or free agent signings derailed due to a failed cardio physical. I think Vinny Curry on the Jets had a blood issue caught during annual physical

Myocardial inflammation or vascular changes would not be detected on a routine physical. To my knowledge, collegiate and professional athletes routinely get an EKG and echo done at some point for screening purposes, but I do not think they are repeated at yearly exams. I will dig deeper and try to find some details from my Sports Med friends.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Myocardial inflammation or vascular changes would not be detected on a routine physical. To my knowledge, collegiate and professional athletes routinely get an EKG and echo done at some point for screening purposes, but I do not think they are repeated at yearly exams. I will dig deeper and try to find some details from my Sports Med friends.

Appendix K of 2020 NFL Collective Bargaining Agreement details minimum requirements for annual physical. This does include Echo and EKG. I'll let the medical people determine if that could diagnose myocarditis.

 

[newyorkvol]

I’m probably not going to be persuaded by anything that uses generalized skepticism to selectively dismiss evidence, but I’m not telling you you’re wrong to be skeptical. I’m skeptical of the fact that a lot of the vaccine research is clearly done by people who had pre-existing opinions that match the outcome of their studies.

This has been the biggest problem with nearly all vaccine research. It’s either done by pharma themselves, or done by researchers who receive their funding through CDC/NIH.

Myocarditis is one example. The research is presented to show myocarditis after vaccine is much less rare than after COVID. And that simple analysis is true. However those studies have grouped completely dissimilar populations to be able to come to that conclusion. Comparing a healthy 20yo male to a 65yo female with medical comorbidities (or vice versa) is just not good science. But that’s what we have.

Edit: Bias is part of any research. The best way to limit that is to start off by trying to prove there is no effect of the treatment (null hypothesis) and then conduct a randomized, controlled clinical trial. We are three years in and we continue to have published research that sets out to confirm an opinion done through observational studies which are ripe for bias flaws.

 

[VolinWayne]

I’m probably not going to be persuaded by anything that uses generalized skepticism to selectively dismiss evidence, but I’m not telling you you’re wrong to be skeptical. I’m skeptical of the fact that a lot of the vaccine research is clearly done by people who had pre-existing opinions that match the outcome of their studies.

You only are skeptical of the side thats doing it with an opinion other then yours. There are so many ties between the Phyzer/Moderna and the institutions that are responsible for regulating their products. You probably have no problem with the fact that

• Former FDA Chairman Scott Gottlieb is now on the board of Pfizer.

• Former FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn joined Moderna.

• Dr. Rick Bright suppressed HCQ — then joined the Rockefeller foundation.

There are many more examples just like this.

As to your other point, there are plenty of people who were for the vaccine until they saw the harm that it was causing in a number of cases.


Cardiologist Changed His Mind About COVID-19 Vaccines After Father's Heart Attack

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I didn’t muddy anything. IF the guy had myocarditis, it absolutely could have come from COVID rather than the vaccine. Everything I’ve read from any actual study and not some fragile message board clout chaser says it’s more likely to occur after a Covid infection and is most likely to occur in a Covid infection of an unvaccinated person.

Your posts make it seem like you’re unfamiliar with any of this, which is why I didn’t bother arguing with you the first time and won’t now.

So using both your logic and the data from this dubious study you are pointing out, a persons odds of getting myocarditis are lower if they are both vaccinated and catch COVID rather than just getting COVID. Now does that make any sense? Catching COVID carries a risk. Now you compound that by getting the vaccine, which also carries an additional risk. So being involved in two activities that carries risk is much safer than only being involved in one activity?

You can't really believe this.

 

[kiddiedoc]

So using both your logic and the data from this dubious study you are pointing out, a persons odds of getting myocarditis are lower if they are both vaccinated and catch COVID rather than just getting COVID. Now does that make any sense? Catching COVID carries a risk. Now you compound that by getting the vaccine, which also carries an additional risk. So being involved in two activities that carries risk is much safer than only being involved in one activity?

You can't really believe this.

Additionally is the ethical question of forcing an employee to take an experimental treatment with the known risk of myocarditis. I haven't heard anyone argue that players should be forced to catch CV19. Now we have studies demonstrating that vaccines may actually INCREASE the incidence or severity of these new variants, thereby increasing risk of the natural viral infection causing myocarditis.

 

[ButchPlz]

You only are skeptical of the side thats doing it with an opinion other then yours. There are so many ties between the Phyzer/Moderna and the institutions that are responsible for regulating their products. You probably have no problem with the fact that

• Former FDA Chairman Scott Gottlieb is now on the board of Pfizer.

• Former FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn joined Moderna.

• Dr. Rick Bright suppressed HCQ — then joined the Rockefeller foundation.

There are many more examples just like this.

As to your other point, there are plenty of people who were for the vaccine until they saw the harm that it was causing in a number of cases.


Cardiologist Changed His Mind About COVID-19 Vaccines After Father's Heart Attack

Read the book Code Blue, which came out in 2019 (I think). Well before the COVID vax situation.

The extremely left-leaning author highlights explicitly (with examples) how the revolving door between scientific journals, academia, government, and big pharma works.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Myocardial inflammation or vascular changes would not be detected on a routine physical. To my knowledge, collegiate and professional athletes routinely get an EKG and echo done at some point for screening purposes, but I do not think they are repeated at yearly exams. I will dig deeper and try to find some details from my Sports Med friends.

According to my friend that is a head team physician at the collegiate level, there is no NCAA mandate, but most schools perform at least an EKG on football players, and many do echoes. The NFL has done screening on new players for about a decade. According to him, they are not repeated unless an issue indicates they should be.

 

[RockyTop85]

You only are skeptical of the side thats doing it with an opinion other then yours. There are so many ties between the Phyzer/Moderna and the institutions that are responsible for regulating their products. You probably have no problem with the fact that

• Former FDA Chairman Scott Gottlieb is now on the board of Pfizer.

• Former FDA Commissioner Stephen Hahn joined Moderna.

• Dr. Rick Bright suppressed HCQ — then joined the Rockefeller foundation.

There are many more examples just like this.

As to your other point, there are plenty of people who were for the vaccine until they saw the harm that it was causing in a number of cases.


Cardiologist Changed His Mind About COVID-19 Vaccines After Father's Heart Attack

I only read the first sentence, but it is completely incorrect.

 

[kiddiedoc]

 

[RockyTop85]

So using both your logic and the data from this dubious study you are pointing out, a persons odds of getting myocarditis are lower if they are both vaccinated and catch COVID rather than just getting COVID. Now does that make any sense? Catching COVID carries a risk. Now you compound that by getting the vaccine, which also carries an additional risk. So being involved in two activities that carries risk is much safer than only being involved in one activity?

You can't really believe this.

What study am I pointing out? I don’t think I linked to it. So you decided it was dubious without knowing what it said?

Sorry, but I met my quota for that kind of conversation with tiny fists and the guy who called everybody smooth brain.