Vaccine or not?

[Electric Orange]

My body, my choice flies out the window when Lord Fauci demands. The last few years have proven to me how soft people are. Nothing to do with getting/not getting vaccinated. Just the overall reactions of people in general.

They're pretty quick to be judge, jury, and executioner for everyone else. All over a virus that most people had a very high probability of surviving.

 

[RockyTop85]

This is a continued problem with the CDC and reporting on COVID. The fact is true. 6x as many people died that were unvaccinated from 6 months old and up. Thats 3/100,000 unvaccinated versus 0.5/100,000. Six times. But they don’t report two things….age stratification or positive effect of vaccine. Is an unvaccinated 6 month old really 6 times more likely of dying? The answer is no when you look at the actual data. But they have to lump 6 month olds with 90 year olds to make the numbers look “scarier”. Also, those same numbers mean that vaccine only gives you a 0.0025% better chance of living if you have had the vaccine.

In general, I agree with you, but in the context of this conversation, I think it’s fair to use aggregated numbers.

A headline saying that “more vaccinated people died from Covid” is misleading because there are far more vaccinated people now, older and more at risk people are more likely to be vaccinated. Using aggregated numbers is just for simplicity of adding context.

It’s like someone saying, “the US prison population is majority white, therefore there can’t be systemic racism against black people.” It’s fair to aggregate numbers and point out that black people are far more likely to get arrested, even if black Grandmas don’t get arrested that often.

 

[Sgt_Nick_Fury]

Apparantly those doctors have all found their tinfoil hats

So no matter how much data comes out, no matter how many who die, no matter how many doctors come forward risking their career, it's those paid off by big pharma and career politicans we should trust, so that their pride and world view might be preserved..is that it?

 

[newyorkvol]

In general, I agree with you, but in the context of this conversation, I think it’s fair to use aggregated numbers.

A headline saying that “more vaccinated people died from Covid” is misleading because there are far more vaccinated people now, older and more at risk people are more likely to be vaccinated. Using aggregated numbers is just for simplicity of adding context.

It’s like someone saying, “the US prison population is majority white, therefore there can’t be systemic racism against black people.” It’s fair to aggregate numbers and point out that black people are far more likely to get arrested, even if black Grandmas don’t get arrested that often.

I guess that’s where I disagree. Aggregating those numbers when trying to determine risk stratification for a medical treatment is pretty risky itself.

 

[RockyTop85]

I guess that’s where I disagree. Aggregating those numbers when trying to determine risk stratification for a medical treatment is pretty risky itself.

The short version of what I just said is that I’m not trying to determine a risk stratification for a medical treatment. That’s something people should do with their primary care provider who can account for their personal risk factors.

 

[NurseGoodVol]

There are fewer of you than 2 years ago and the studies shows you are dying at 3 times the vaxxed rate. Keep up the good work.

Keep dancing on people’s graves.

 

[kiddiedoc]

This is a continued problem with the CDC and reporting on COVID. The fact is true. 6x as many people died that were unvaccinated from 6 months old and up. Thats 3/100,000 unvaccinated versus 0.5/100,000. Six times. But they don’t report two things….age stratification or positive effect of vaccine. Is an unvaccinated 6 month old really 6 times more likely of dying? The answer is no when you look at the actual data. But they have to lump 6 month olds with 90 year olds to make the numbers look “scarier”. Also, those same numbers mean that vaccine only gives you a 0.0025% better chance of living if you have had the vaccine.

As I posted previously, a high-ranking staff member at a prominent children's hospital told me that his staff nor the ones he communicates with directly know of a SINGLE pediatric death in a previously-healthy child in the entire nearly 3 year span of this affair.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

This is a continued problem with the CDC and reporting on COVID. The fact is true. 6x as many people died that were unvaccinated from 6 months old and up. Thats 3/100,000 unvaccinated versus 0.5/100,000. Six times. But they don’t report two things….age stratification or positive effect of vaccine. Is an unvaccinated 6 month old really 6 times more likely of dying? The answer is no when you look at the actual data. But they have to lump 6 month olds with 90 year olds to make the numbers look “scarier”. Also, those same numbers mean that vaccine only gives you a 0.0025% better chance of living if you have had the vaccine.

Compared to vaccinated, unvaxxed are (most recent weekly data) to die from COVID:

0-29: No change (actually very slightly less)
30-49: 5.4x
50-64: 8x
65-79: 9x
Over 80: 4x

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

It's about perspective. Let's assume the following for 30-49 age range:

Unvaxxed: 99.9% survivable
Vaxxed: 99.98% survivable

Both of the following headlines are true:

* Unvaxxed are 5x more likely to die from COVID
* Unvaxxed have 99.9% survival rate for this age group

 

[kiddiedoc]

It's about perspective. Let's assume the following for 30-49 age range:

Unvaxxed: 99.9% survivable
Vaxxed: 99.98% survivable

Both of the following headlines are true:

* Unvaxxed are 5x more likely to die from COVID
* Unvaxxed have 99.9% survival rate for this age group

This was a problem from the get-go. Our illustrious Knoxville news outlet reported a "200%" increase in pediatric hospitalizations one week from the week prior.

Want to guess the raw numbers?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

This was a problem from the get-go. Our illustrious Knoxville news outlet reported a "200%" increase in pediatric hospitalizations one week from the week prior.

Want to guess the raw numbers?

1 to 3

 

[Orangeslice13]

A new study by a team of researchers from Harvard University and Yale University estimates that 94% of the U.S. population has been infected with COVID-19 at least once, leaving just 1 in 20 people who have never had the virus.

I’ve never tested positive.
I’d be willing to bet that I’ve had it multiple times.

 

[RockyTop85]

I’ve never tested positive.
I’d be willing to bet that I’ve had it multiple times.

Same with my wife.

 

[evillawyer]

A new study by a team of researchers from Harvard University and Yale University estimates that 94% of the U.S. population has been infected with COVID-19 at least once, leaving just 1 in 20 people who have never had the virus.

I finally succumbed over Christmas. Beat that virus like a rented mule.

 

[C-south]

I finally succumbed over Christmas. Beat that virus like a rented mule.

Just like millions that never took a shot.

 

[VolinWayne]

So no matter how much data comes out, no matter how many who die, no matter how many doctors come forward risking their career, it's those paid off by big pharma and career politicans we should trust, so that their pride and world view might be preserved..is that it?

That's apparantly what some people think

 

[VolinWayne]

Same with my wife.

I've never tested positive either. Then again, I've also never tested. Pretty sure I had it

 

[kiddiedoc]

1 to 3

Close, 2 -> 4, and the hospital services roughly 19 counties. Average stay? 1.5 days.

So, there were less kids hospitalized than there were Tylenol overdoses, yet how much news coverage was given to safeguarding the kids' mental health and locking up medications? Actually, there was news on locking up, but it was directed at locking up people, thereby increasing suicide attempts.

 

[RockyTop85]

Compared to vaccinated, unvaxxed are (most recent weekly data) to die from COVID:

0-29: No change (actually very slightly less)
30-49: 5.4x
50-64: 8x
65-79: 9x
Over 80: 4x

It's about perspective. Let's assume the following for 30-49 age range:

Unvaxxed: 99.9% survivable
Vaxxed: 99.98% survivable

Both of the following headlines are true:

* Unvaxxed are 5x more likely to die from COVID
* Unvaxxed have 99.9% survival rate for this age group

This seems to be where the rubber meets the road.

There are new appreciated risks of vaccine that didn’t present in initial trials, but the parade of horribles is mostly being exaggerated.
There has clearly been some benefit from vaccines, but that benefit has diminished over time because mutations resulted in waning efficacy and less severe Covid.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Close, 2 -> 4, and the hospital services roughly 19 counties. Average stay? 1.5 days.

So, there were less kids hospitalized than there were Tylenol overdoses, yet how much news coverage was given to safeguarding the kids' mental health and locking up medications? Actually, there was news on locking up, but it was directed at locking up people, thereby increasing suicide attempts.

Wouldn't 2 to 4 be a 100% increase and not a 200% increase?

 

[nickvolstate]

Been following this thread since I had vivid in August of 21 …. What a wild ride

 

[Jxn Vol]

Wait another few years if/when the prion, I mean spike protein has done its damage to other organs like kidneys, liver, pancreas, etc.

We are not out of the woods folks. That’s why you have long term safety data before you release a shot for a 99% survivable virus.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Wouldn't 2 to 4 be a 100% increase and not a 200% increase?

I see what you are saying, and I don't remember the exact wording, maybe that admissions were "200% from the week before." I just remember the outrage from parents and the raw numbers, as staff all got weekly email updates on hospital data. Of course, knowing the source, it's a good possibility that they botched the math in the first place.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Been following this thread since I had vivid in August of 21 …. What a wild ride

Is that still in print?

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

This seems to be where the rubber meets the road.

There are new appreciated risks of vaccine that didn’t present in initial trials, but the parade of horribles is mostly being exaggerated.
There has clearly been some benefit from vaccines, but that benefit has diminished over time because mutations resulted in waning efficacy and less severe Covid.

That's pretty much a good summary. If you are young and healthy, based on most recent data, there is little to no benefit of the vax. If you are old and unhealthy, the vax is probably beneficial. It's been trending this way for the past 12-15 months or so.

The "parade of horribles" that you see here are usually an easily debunked, flawed statistical analysis on an apples to oranges basis or on extremely limited subsets of data. For example, comparing a 500% increase in soccer deaths when the baseline time period had hardly no games played due to the dumb lockdowns is a fatally flawed analysis.

The two most compelling studies presented in here showing vax risk is the myocarditis risk in young adults receiving the vax and the pulmonary embolism risk for those 65 and older. On a percentage basis, the myocarditis risk looks bad (just like the difference between 99.9% and 99.98%) but the absolute numbers are small. Again, that age group honestly doesn't need the vax.

There is a trend for those in nursing homes over 65 to see enhanced pulmonary embolism risks after the vax. It's a moderate statistical signal there. There's extra risk there but the number of PEs over expectations is still much, much smaller than the lives saved in that vulnerable age group.