View: There is a generational war looming in the GOP

#26
#26
CSVol said:
Agree the economy must be the focus. My point is that aspects of GOP social agenda pushed by some conservatives will alienate independents both parties need to win.
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Boils down to individual perspective and priorities. You and I may cast a vote for the same guy on election day for different reasons. I may not like the guy for the reason you voted for him, and visa versa. It boils down to where the guy stands on the most important issues to you individually. As career politicians have shown for many years, your typically not gonna find one that fits your criteria to a "T". At least in most cases. Thats why they are typically all over the map when running for office.
 
#27
#27
droski said:
how many threads have you made that indicate the republican party is about to fall apart at it seems?
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I debated use of the phrase "generational war" because I don't want to overstate it. As I say, there's a couple of ways it could play out and I don't see it as "falling apart at the seams."

Just explaining a possible reason 1) why it is that so many of you GOP VN posters keep saying you could give a flip about something like Don't Ask Don't Tell and are so focused on fiscal restraint; 2) why it is that no one is really emerging from the field of potential GOP candidates as clear leader; and 3) why this go 'round there do in fact seem to be two distinct classes of potential GOP candidates in the first place.
 
#29
#29
lawgator1 said:
I debated use of the phrase "generational war" because I don't want to overstate it. As I say, there's a couple of ways it could play out and I don't see it as "falling apart at the seams."

Just explaining a possible reason 1) why it is that so many of you GOP VN posters keep saying you could give a flip about something like Don't Ask Don't Tell and are so focused on fiscal restraint; 2) why it is that no one is really emerging from the field of potential GOP candidates as clear leader; and 3) why this go 'round there do in fact seem to be two distinct classes of potential GOP candidates in the first place.
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It's super early in an election cycle where there's an incumbent running. The opposition party tends to look like this.
 
#30
#30
I think if you look at who was energized most by the Tea Party - particularly early when the message was entirely fiscal - it was old people.

Look where the Ryan plan had the most support - old people.

As a counter to the LG hypothesis I would suggest that the older generation is definitely the stronger "self-reliance" and "personal responsibility" camp. These are people that did for themselves.

IOW - I don't see it as generational. It is simply a party without a strong leader at the current point in time.
 
#31
#31
lawgator1 said:
I agree that they are not mutually exclusive. But, it seems inevitable that the younger people in the party would be more willing in their self interest to drastically reform SS and Medicare than those over 50, who would oppose it in their own self-interest.
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They are not only not mutually exclusive... they are intellectually consistent. If you value freedom and especially economic freedom then it must come with personal responsibility for the consequences of your actions.


That's why it is tragic for the future of our country that the left demagogues plans that gradually change those programs. They scare current seniors purposefully to prevent meaningful reform back toward a more limited gov't approach. Young conservatives being willing to make common sense changes that may eventually cost them bennies is a very good and responsible thing.
 
#32
#32
IPorange said:
How dies that counter what I said? Socially conservative states are the statistically least educated. So you question the value of education? With your (politically informed) opinion?
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That being true does not mean that the social conservatives are the ones who are uneducated. There's a gaping hole in your argument. It can still be (and I would submit probably is) that the undereducated in places like Mississippi or Alaska are the ones more likely to get their moral training from Jerry Springer.
 
#33
#33
lawgator1 said:
I debated use of the phrase "generational war" because I don't want to overstate it. As I say, there's a couple of ways it could play out and I don't see it as "falling apart at the seams."

Just explaining a possible reason 1) why it is that so many of you GOP VN posters keep saying you could give a flip about something like Don't Ask Don't Tell and are so focused on fiscal restraint; 2) why it is that no one is really emerging from the field of potential GOP candidates as clear leader; and 3) why this go 'round there do in fact seem to be two distinct classes of potential GOP candidates in the first place.
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didn't you once claim that you didn't know you were going to vote for Obama until you were actually in the voting booth?

the only people complaining about the lack of a "clear GOP leader" are the democrats, their voters, George Soros and the news media who doesn't yet have a GOP bogeyman to smear.
 
#34
#34
sjt18 said:
That being true does not mean that the social conservatives are the ones who are uneducated. There's a gaping hole in your argument. It can still be (and I would submit probably is) that the undereducated in places like Mississippi or Alaska are the ones more likely to get their moral training from Jerry Springer.
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There can't be a gaping hole in my argument if it is an argument I didn't make. I only noted the correlation, I never said there was necessarily a relationship.
 
#35
#35
I am frankly not worried about the Presidency right now.

We need a real conservative majority in the House and to get conservative senators elected from every Red State (28-32 of them).

There are several guys in the GOP who I simply won't vote for. Romney sits at the top of that list. I likely would not vote for Daniels. Cain is a long shot but would be a guy I could support.

This is a funny complaint coming from the left though. Every time someone emerges who energizes conservatives, the left and their minions in the MSM go on a character assassination campaign until that person is marginalized.... then they "complain" about no exciting and unifying GOP candidates.

LG is just voicing wishful thinking. He would like for this rift to exist... therefore it must.

The problem for him and the left is that almost all social conservatives are moderate to conservative on fiscal issues as well. Most fiscal conservatives aren't all that worried about having their rights confiscated.

There is always the chance that the left's propaganda machine can shave people off one edge or the other... but this divide is nothing like the natural schisms in the Dem "base".
 
#36
#36
IPorange said:
There can't be a gaping hole in my argument if it is an argument I didn't make. I only noted the correlation, I never said there was necessarily a relationship.
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If you weren't implying a relationship then it was a completely meaningless comment. You are nothing if not thoughtful and deliberate.
 
#37
#37
sjt18 said:
If you weren't implying a relationship then it was a completely meaningless comment. You are nothing if not thoughtful and deliberate.
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I am known to troll. Especially in a thread that was obviously designed for it.
 
#38
#38
joevol320 said:
you consider your gardner a friend? :p
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Forever-Alone.jpg


CSVol said:
Agree the economy must be the focus. My point is that aspects of GOP social agenda pushed by some conservatives will alienate independents both parties need to win.
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I can agree with this... That's where the fracture seems to be, those who want to push conservative social issues and those who think it would be the GOP's version of "the nanny state" so to speak. I can buy it. But I'm not sold that they won't have a strong candidate come election time.
 
#39
#39
Obama has lost the black vote and the independant.

If the Repulbicans lose in 2012, it means they really put up a loser of a candidate.

Personally, I hope Herman Cain gets the nod. I can't wait to see the spin LG and his lefty buddies put on this one when all the righties and the TP get behind him and start chanting for a black man to lead us.
 
#41
#41
NEOCON said:
Obama has lost the black vote and the independant.

If the Repulbicans lose in 2012, it means they really put up a loser of a candidate.

Personally, I hope Herman Cain gets the nod. I can't wait to see the spin LG and his lefty buddies put on this one when all the righties and the TP get behind him and start chanting for a black man to lead us.
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I can't wait to see the droves of rednecks in the rural South refuse to vote.
 
#42
#42
NEOCON said:
Obama has lost the black vote
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For lack of a sarcastic response:

Very doubtful.

*And for the record, I will be one of the southerners, who will vote regardless of race. This becoming true when Obama vs. Trump became irrelevant.
 
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#43
#43
sjt18 said:
I am frankly not worried about the Presidency right now.

We need a real conservative majority in the House and to get conservative senators elected from every Red State (28-32 of them).

There are several guys in the GOP who I simply won't vote for. Romney sits at the top of that list. I likely would not vote for Daniels. Cain is a long shot but would be a guy I could support.

This is a funny complaint coming from the left though. Every time someone emerges who energizes conservatives, the left and their minions in the MSM go on a character assassination campaign until that person is marginalized.... then they "complain" about no exciting and unifying GOP candidates.

LG is just voicing wishful thinking. He would like for this rift to exist... therefore it must.

The problem for him and the left is that almost all social conservatives are moderate to conservative on fiscal issues as well. Most fiscal conservatives aren't all that worried about having their rights confiscated.

There is always the chance that the left's propaganda machine can shave people off one edge or the other... but this divide is nothing like the natural schisms in the Dem "base".
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Are you that myopic to believe that the right doesn't engage in propaganda? The righties arguing with the lefties; the lefties arguing with the righties, all the while both sides view their chosen group to be above the fray and beyond reproach. 2 truths here: 1. Neither side is better than the other in this propaganda argument. 2. People believe (incorrectly, I might add) that their 'side' doesn't engage in the 'other sides'' dirty tactics.

Folks they are the same animal, direction doesn't matter a dime. Either side will say or do most anything for the sake of gaining/keeping power. They are politicians; they are hardwired to engage in 'unsavory' acts to perpetuate their species.
 
#45
#45
Mr_Henley said:
Two party system is one of many things killing this country.
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It is a sybiotic relationship. One party would not exist without the other. As much as they like to hurl stones at each other, they actually need each other.
 
#49
#49
JayVols said:
Interesting. Could you please expound? Thanks.
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Compare what happens here to a Parliamentary system with its fractured interests. People complain about partisanship but ultimately I think the compromises that get forced by a 2 party system are part of what has helped us get things done.
 
#50
#50
GAVol said:
Compare what happens here to a Parliamentary system with its fractured interests. People complain about partisanship but ultimately I think the compromises that get forced by a 2 party system are part of what has helped us get things done.
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I have watched the Parliamentary shows from Britain on C-SPAN. Pure comedic gold.
 
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