Viktor Orban and Hungary

#78
#78
ClearwaterVol said:
How would you defend that? What is it that makes us greater than all other countries?
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Opportunity. yeah you can go by whatever metric you most prefer and find an individual country that fits a particular individual better than the US. but if you want a baseline opportunity for as much as possible the US is best option.

There is a reason we are a net immigration country vs literally every other country. More of X country move to the US than US citizens move to X country. and that includes all these largely white western nations you think we should be more like.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.NETM?locations=US
2022 Study: Where Americans Are Actually Moving Abroad ✈️ – Moving Advice from HireAHelper)

despite us having a far larger population than most countries we still have far fewer people leave than show up. we have less than 100k leave a year. 1.2 MILLION legal immigrants. 13% are from Europe or Canada, for 156,000.
almost 20% of the total immigrants in the world end up in the US. thats a staggering number when you consider than 70% of migrants only move to the country next door, and we only have two neighbors.

you can pick and choose what matters to you the most, "freedom", healthcare, retirement care, equality, blah blah blah. The US is the going to be one of the most consistent performers across ALL of the metrics. Yeah Sweden scores better than us on "freedom", and then the UK scores better on healthcare, and Spain has great retirement, Switzerland better equality, Singapore better "blah", but you are going to see America pretty high on every one of those lists. So if you are looking for the most consistent top performer across the board its going to be the US.

most of this board, and this nations, problems with our country are 100% pure "1st world" problems, and most nations actually have much stricter citizenship requirements than us. again you are going to have the best opportunity here. yeah, no guarantee's here, not sure why there should be any guarantee; but here you can work to get what you want. you can't say that in other nations. we have such insanely high standards here we think we are worse than we are.
 
#79
#79
LouderVol said:
Opportunity. yeah you can go by whatever metric you most prefer and find an individual country that fits a particular individual better than the US. but if you want a baseline opportunity for as much as possible the US is best option.

There is a reason we are a net immigration country vs literally every other country. More of X country move to the US than US citizens move to X country. and that includes all these largely white western nations you think we should be more like.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.NETM?locations=US
2022 Study: Where Americans Are Actually Moving Abroad ✈️ – Moving Advice from HireAHelper)

despite us having a far larger population than most countries we still have far fewer people leave than show up. we have less than 100k leave a year. 1.2 MILLION legal immigrants. 13% are from Europe or Canada, for 156,000.
almost 20% of the total immigrants in the world end up in the US. thats a staggering number when you consider than 70% of migrants only move to the country next door, and we only have two neighbors.

you can pick and choose what matters to you the most, "freedom", healthcare, retirement care, equality, blah blah blah. The US is the going to be one of the most consistent performers across ALL of the metrics. Yeah Sweden scores better than us on "freedom", and then the UK scores better on healthcare, and Spain has great retirement, Switzerland better equality, Singapore better "blah", but you are going to see America pretty high on every one of those lists. So if you are looking for the most consistent top performer across the board its going to be the US.

most of this board, and this nations, problems with our country are 100% pure "1st world" problems, and most nations actually have much stricter citizenship requirements than us. again you are going to have the best opportunity here. yeah, no guarantee's here, not sure why there should be any guarantee; but here you can work to get what you want. you can't say that in other nations. we have such insanely high standards here we think we are worse than we are.
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Wasting your time.
 
#80
#80
LouderVol said:
Opportunity. yeah you can go by whatever metric you most prefer and find an individual country that fits a particular individual better than the US. but if you want a baseline opportunity for as much as possible the US is best option.

There is a reason we are a net immigration country vs literally every other country. More of X country move to the US than US citizens move to X country. and that includes all these largely white western nations you think we should be more like.

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SM.POP.NETM?locations=US
2022 Study: Where Americans Are Actually Moving Abroad ✈️ – Moving Advice from HireAHelper)

despite us having a far larger population than most countries we still have far fewer people leave than show up. we have less than 100k leave a year. 1.2 MILLION legal immigrants. 13% are from Europe or Canada, for 156,000.
almost 20% of the total immigrants in the world end up in the US. thats a staggering number when you consider than 70% of migrants only move to the country next door, and we only have two neighbors.

you can pick and choose what matters to you the most, "freedom", healthcare, retirement care, equality, blah blah blah. The US is the going to be one of the most consistent performers across ALL of the metrics. Yeah Sweden scores better than us on "freedom", and then the UK scores better on healthcare, and Spain has great retirement, Switzerland better equality, Singapore better "blah", but you are going to see America pretty high on every one of those lists. So if you are looking for the most consistent top performer across the board its going to be the US.

most of this board, and this nations, problems with our country are 100% pure "1st world" problems, and most nations actually have much stricter citizenship requirements than us. again you are going to have the best opportunity here. yeah, no guarantee's here, not sure why there should be any guarantee; but here you can work to get what you want. you can't say that in other nations. we have such insanely high standards here we think we are worse than we are.
Click to expand...

So, while we are not the greatest in any one area our balance causes us to be the best overall?
 
#83
#83
#84
#84
lawgator1 said:
He's a Putin ally and evil.

www.vox.com

Viktor Orbán laid out his dark worldview to the American right — and they loved it

The European Union’s only autocrat came to CPAC Dallas and sold American conservatives on a vision of a Western civil war.
www.vox.com www.vox.com
Click to expand...
so the "antidemocratic" nature of his government comes down to a whole bunch of things happening in this country by both sides.

the real issue seems to be their election system. its weird, but has been since they got their freedom. Most of this doesn't really make sense to me even after reading up on it during lunch.
1. you vote for an individual candidate for your electoral area. 106 seats. these don't require an absolute majority, you just have to have the most votes out of all the options for that seat.
-and-
2. you vote for a party OR a nationality "list" 93 seats
2b. in those lists there is a list of each party or nationality, and then a "minority" list.
-I have no idea what "nationality" means in this context because it apparently doesn't mean "hungarian vs not hungarian". and apparently in some cases a "party" can appear on multiple "lists" but depending on which "lists" you are on you may not be qualified as a party for certain votes.
-if there aren't enough qualified, candidates-parties-"nationalities" on the various lists, more have to get added.
2c. when you vote for any of the lists any excess votes, over 50%+1, get rolled over into the next seat. This tends to create snowballs for whichever party wins the first seat.
2d. however if you vote for the minority list it works in reverse, starting with the last seating and any excess votes rolling over to the next seat. and then they eventually meet in the "middle".

Apparently Orban has won and lost via the minority vote before. The changes all happened before his most recent stint in office, meaning he lost with whatever changes he made. I don't really understand it but he changed the way the various lists works and the gerrymandering.

the gerrymandering seems very strange from an American perspective too. Apparently before you didn't have a real physical boundary for your "district" in reality it was just a seat determined by national ID #. so your votes weren't counted with your neighbors. they then made physical areas, but those made absolutely no sense with some husband/wives not voting in the same district, it was based on where you were born & how many votes were in that area to get to an equal # of total voters. now finally they have divided the nation up into 93 physical districts (vs the 106 in the individual) and you vote based on where you live. of course this leads to more people voting in some districts than others, and different counts from the 93 vs 106. the 106 is apparently pretty closely equal in terms of #s of voters, but the 93 is nowhere close to balanced, and it apparently favors the rural areas over the urban.

Orban's supporters have also changed over time, so unless he was playing some crazy 4D chess, favoring the rural areas wouldn't have made sense earlier in his career.

they have an odd number of seats on purpose so there can be no ties.
the 199 elected people choose the president, who apparently doesn't have to be one of their number or a party member.
 
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