Vince Young

#26
#26
JokermanVol said:
Why does it have to go from one extreme to another? A simple, "I expect to be the starter," minus the "or some other team will want me" talk would have probably worked better for him.
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I think he would have left that part out if he would watch film of how he actually plays...He would probably be good in the Wildcat or something that don't rely on his passing ability because Lord knows he don't have much lol....I don't hate Vince Young by no means I think he is a gifted athlete he just isn't an NFL type QB and IMO if the Titans would have drafted Leinart or Cutler we definitely wouldn't be having this conversation right now
 
#27
#27
#10_Ainge_#10 said:
I think he would have left that part out if he would watch film of how he actually plays...He would probably be good in the Wildcat or something that don't rely on his passing ability because Lord knows he don't have much lol....I don't hate Vince Young by no means I think he is a gifted athlete he just isn't an NFL type QB and IMO if the Titans would have drafted Leinart or Cutler we definitely wouldn't be having this conversation right now
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Well that's true because he wouldn't be on the Titans.
 
#28
#28
#10_Ainge_#10 said:
I think he would have left that part out if he would watch film of how he actually plays...He would probably be good in the Wildcat or something that don't rely on his passing ability because Lord knows he don't have much lol....I don't hate Vince Young by no means I think he is a gifted athlete he just isn't an NFL type QB and IMO if the Titans would have drafted Leinart or Cutler we definitely wouldn't be having this conversation right now
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He turned out to be the better of the 3 that year. The other 2 both have gotten beat out by much older QBs'.
 
#29
#29
Hard to argue with Leinart not beating out Warner though- he was an MVP candidate this year.
 
#30
#30
JZVOL said:
Hard to argue with Leinart not beating out Warner though- he was an MVP candidate this year.
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But he did lose his job and didn't play to expectations. Granted when he was starting the Cards had much the same problems as Denver but Denver's problems were much worse and Cutler carried that team to what little success they did have.
 
#31
#31
KB5252 said:
But he did lose his job and didn't play to expectations. Granted when he was starting the Cards had much the same problems as Denver but Denver's problems were much worse and Cutler carried that team to what little success they did have.
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He also never earned the job. They handed it to him. Warner has won MVP's and earned the job with his play.

Leinart didn't play to expectations, but he could still have a nice career. Cutler has obviously been the best, and I think VY is the next Akili Smith... he's done.
 
#32
#32
JZVOL said:
He also never earned the job. They handed it to him. Warner has won MVP's and earned the job with his play.

Leinart didn't play to expectations, but he could still have a nice career. Cutler has obviously been the best, and I think VY is the next Akili Smith... he's done.
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at this point he has shown little to make anyone think otherwise.
 
#33
#33
KB5252 said:
at this point he has shown little to make anyone think otherwise.
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And I hate that. Him and Pacman are two blown top 10 picks. AS much as I like the Titans I really question their front office at times.
 
#34
#34
KB5252 said:
at this point he has shown little to make anyone think otherwise.
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You mean like make the Pro-Bowl his rookie season, Offensive Rookie of the Year, lead his team to 6 straight wins in the same year, and a 10-6 record in his second year?

Look, if he doesn't pan out, he doesn't pan out. The Titans just need to give him a fair shake, and if he doesn't out play Collins, then release him. I, for one, think that if he can get his head straight and play motivated, he can be the Titans QB for a while.
 
#35
#35
orangetanker11 said:
You mean like make the Pro-Bowl his rookie season, Offensive Rookie of the Year, lead his team to 6 straight wins in the same year, and a 10-6 record in his second year?

Look, if he doesn't pan out, he doesn't pan out. The Titans just need to give him a fair shake, and if he doesn't out play Collins, then release him. I, for one, think that if he can get his head straight and play motivated, he can be the Titans QB for a while.
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And this is what my post you quoted was referencing. He has not shown any improvement over the time he has been there. He has not learned the system, he has not been able to do what the coaches ask of him (which isn't much, simply manage the game). I know from people very close to the organization that he has not been receptive to help he has been offered.

Last year he gave up on his team, the only way the other guys will ever respect you and follow you after that is if you own it and prove that you have moved past it and changed your attitude. From what I am being told he has put more work in this year but many are not satisfied that he has owned up to what happened last year. If he does all that is asked the team will rally around him if he is asked to lead them, but he has a lot to prove to them, it matters very little what I or anyone else but the people in the organization and players think about it.

I just question whether or not he has enough between the ears or gut to do what they are asking of him and that has been the biggest knock on him to date besides the issue I mentioned earlier.
 
#36
#36
orangetanker11 said:
You mean like make the Pro-Bowl his rookie season, Offensive Rookie of the Year, lead his team to 6 straight wins in the same year, and a 10-6 record in his second year?

Look, if he doesn't pan out, he doesn't pan out. The Titans just need to give him a fair shake, and if he doesn't out play Collins, then release him. I, for one, think that if he can get his head straight and play motivated, he can be the Titans QB for a while.
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Which he didn't deserve and was because of injuries.

How has he not gotten a fair shake from the Titans?

He hasn't outplayed Collins and they can't release him because of the cap hit and who will trade for him with that contract?
 
#37
#37
orangetanker11 said:
You mean like make the Pro-Bowl his rookie season, Offensive Rookie of the Year, lead his team to 6 straight wins in the same year, and a 10-6 record in his second year?

Look, if he doesn't pan out, he doesn't pan out. The Titans just need to give him a fair shake, and if he doesn't out play Collins, then release him. I, for one, think that if he can get his head straight and play motivated, he can be the Titans QB for a while.
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So you mean when he made the Pro Bowl because about 4-5 guys dropped out?

But let's not kid ourselves here. He can't hit the broad side of a barn. Defenses adjusted to Vince's tendencies to roll right in 2007 which already started to diminish his scrambling. The Titan defense improved EVERY single year. From the 8-8 rookie year, to the 10-6 year #2, to its 13-3 peak last season.

Between those on the field cues and the stuff in-between the ears, VY is toast unless he too wants to specialize in the Wildcat.
 
#38
#38
Which he didn't deserve and was because of injuries.

How has he not gotten a fair shake from the Titans?

He hasn't outplayed Collins and they can't release him because of the cap hit and who will trade for him with that contract?
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---Which means he was what, 4th best in the conference that season?

---Didn't say he wasn't getting a fair shake. They just don't need to go into camp set on Collins as their starter.

---If VY doesn't earn the starting job, you have to release him, even though they will take a cap hit. The Titans are way below the cap anyway, so it won't be catastrophic to take the hit.
 
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#39
#39
orangetanker11 said:
---Which means he was what, 4th best in the conference that season?

---Didn't say he wasn't getting a fair shake. They just don't need to go into camp set on Collins as their starter.

---If VY doesn't earn the starting job, you have to release him, even though they will take a cap hit. The Titans are way below the cap anyway, so it won't be catastrophic to take the hit.
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He was not the 4th best.

What has happened between now and the playoffs with VY and Collins that they shouldn't go to camp set on Collins?

There is zero chance of VY being released until after the season.
 
#40
#40
orangetanker11 said:
---Which means he was what, 4th best in the conference that season?

---Didn't say he wasn't getting a fair shake. They just don't need to go into camp set on Collins as their starter.

---If VY doesn't earn the starting job, you have to release him, even though they will take a cap hit. The Titans are way below the cap anyway, so it won't be catastrophic to take the hit.
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I would contend that Collins earned the starting job this year for his performance last year. I believe the staff has decided that if Vince wants to be the starting qb he has to earn it and take it away from Collins, the starting position is his until Vince earns it. This is exactly the approach I would take if it were me, especially after Vince's meltdowns last year.

I agree with everything bold in the last statement.
 
#41
#41
I'm not cap guru, but if they release him now or before the season, won't it cost them more than if they release him after the season?

Basically they'll have to pay beyond this year's salary if they release him, I think?
 
#42
#42
KB5252 said:
And this is what my post you quoted was referencing. He has not shown any improvement over the time he has been there. He has not learned the system, he has not been able to do what the coaches ask of him (which isn't much, simply manage the game). I know from people very close to the organization that he has not been receptive to help he has been offered.

Last year he gave up on his team, the only way the other guys will ever respect you and follow you after that is if you own it and prove that you have moved past it and changed your attitude. From what I am being told he has put more work in this year but many are not satisfied that he has owned up to what happened last year. If he does all that is asked the team will rally around him if he is asked to lead them, but he has a lot to prove to them, it matters very little what I or anyone else but the people in the organization and players think about it.

I just question whether or not he has enough between the ears or gut to do what they are asking of him and that has been the biggest knock on him to date besides the issue I mentioned earlier.
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I agree 100%. My point is this...if he can't win the starting job, release him. Don't hold him hostage just because of a cap hit.
 
#43
#43
JZVOL said:
I'm not cap guru, but if they release him now or before the season, won't it cost them more than if they release him after the season?

Basically they'll have to pay beyond this year's salary if they release him, I think?
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Collins isn't getting any younger, so, if it were my team, I would release him after the season. I would feel much more comfortable with VY as my backup instead of Patrick Ramsey in the event Collins should get hurt.

But I don't think they release VY this year, it would be after the season at the earliest.

If VY and the Titans are to part ways, the future of the QB position on this team looks very bleak.
 
#44
#44
Not only because of a cap hit, but they can't release him. They need him at minimum for depth if Collins struggles or gets hurt.
 
#45
#45
orangetanker11 said:
Collins isn't getting any younger, so, if it were my team, I would release him after the season. I would feel much more comfortable with VY as my backup instead of Patrick Ramsey in the event Collins should get hurt.

But I don't think they release VY this year, it would be after the season at the earliest.

If VY and the Titans are to part ways, the future of the QB position on this team looks very bleak.
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I agree as I said in my post right before this.

I think VY is due a roster bonus after this season that I don't see the Titans paying unless he plays this year, and plays very well.

Yea, they are in a tough position. They could always trade for Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn (whoever is available) and see what happens.
 
#46
#46
JZVOL said:
I agree as I said in my post right before this.

I think VY is due a roster bonus after this season that I don't see the Titans paying unless he plays this year, and plays very well.

Yea, they are in a tough position. They could always trade for Derek Anderson or Brady Quinn (whoever is available) and see what happens.
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If VY isn't around after this year, they need to think long and hard about getting a guy in here who can be the future franchise. I think Quinn would be a good fit.
 
#47
#47
orangetanker11 said:
I agree 100%. My point is this...if he can't win the starting job, release him. Don't hold him hostage just because of a cap hit.
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Yet Vince demanding to the the starter or else is okay?

Regardless, his agent probably set him straight and now he wants to be a Titan. Good thing, because considering the cap hit they'd take and the pay cut Young would have to accept if they released him, it would be a lose-lose situation.

And like it or not, NFL teams own you if you sign a contract, but not vice versa.
 
#49
#49
JokermanVol said:
Yet Vince demanding to the the starter or else is okay?

Regardless, his agent probably set him straight and now he wants to be a Titan. Good thing, because considering the cap hit they'd take and the pay cut Young would have to accept if they released him, it would be a lose-lose situation.

And like it or not, NFL teams own you if you sign a contract, but not vice versa.
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What would they win by keeping him on the bench? I understand very well how contracts work, but if he doesn't play this year, I guarantee VY is gone.
 
#50
#50
They're going to cut him at the end of the year. Maybe if he keeps talking like a idiot, he'll give the titans a reason to part ways with him sooner. Either way he's out of here, that marriage will end in a divorce soon.
 
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