Vince Young

#51
#51
Cartervol said:
They're going to cut him at the end of the year. Maybe if he keeps talking like a idiot, he'll give the titans a reason to part ways with him sooner. Either way he's out of here, that marriage will end in a divorce soon.
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Let's keep our fingers crossed! Vince young just doesn't fit in Nashville...Like it was said in this thread earlier that offense just needs someone that can manage it not make big plays...Besides that all the Titans rely on and have relyed on the past few years isa good running game and a nasty defense
 
#52
#52
#10_Ainge_#10 said:
Let's keep our fingers crossed! Vince young just doesn't fit in Nashville...Like it was said in this thread earlier that offense just needs someone that can manage it not make big plays...Besides that all the Titans rely on and have relyed on the past few years isa good running game and a nasty defense
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Thats fisher ball.
 
#54
#54
orangetanker11 said:
What would they win by keeping him on the bench? I understand very well how contracts work, but if he doesn't play this year, I guarantee VY is gone.
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If you understand how they work you'd know that the Titans would take a shot against their cap number if they cut him. Yes, some of his contract money would be "available" to use, but, for instance, if VY is paid 5 million in '09, the Titans may only be eligible to use part of that after they were to cut him. So basically they'd be cutting 5 million from their books but only retain the right to use a certain percentage of that on a replacement/another player. Considering the going rate of even backup QB and this cap rule, the Titans are better off keeping him as a backup than cutting him and being left with having to find a backup with only a fraction of the money available that they paid Vince. Hopefully this made any sense.

By keeping him on the bench they win more games.
 
#55
#55
JokermanVol said:
If you understand how they work you'd know that the Titans would take a shot against their cap number if they cut him. Yes, some of his contract money would be "available" to use, but, for instance, if VY is paid 5 million in '09, the Titans may only be eligible to use part of that after they were to cut him. So basically they'd be cutting 5 million from their books but only retain the right to use a certain percentage of that on a replacement/another player. Considering the going rate of even backup QB and this cap rule, the Titans are better off keeping him as a backup than cutting him and being left with having to find a backup with only a fraction of the money available that they paid Vince. Hopefully this made any sense.

By keeping him on the bench they win more games.
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Your point would make perfect sense if the Titans were in danger of coming close to the cap. They are not.
 
#56
#56
It makes perfect sense. It's a giant waist of millions of dollars to cut him.
 
#57
#57
orangetanker11 said:
Your point would make perfect sense if the Titans were in danger of coming close to the cap. They are not.
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The rules still apply the same. They shouldn't have to bend over backwards for a crybaby just because of their circumstance. If he wants out, his agent can find a team dumb enough to trade for him.
 
#58
#58
Not to mention that by "holding Vince hostage" sends a bad message to the rest of the players in the league. Tennessee will not be a free-agent friendly place to land. Right or wrong, players will not want to sign with a team that prevents its players the opportunity to play elsewhere if they are of no longer useful to their organization.

Since Vince isn't willing to be the bigger person, the Titans do need to be. If it ends up not working out here, let the guy go play elsewhere. The cap hit is not going to make or break this team since the Titans are a self-described "cap-friendly" organization. Take the hit, you made a made choice on drafting Young, suck it up and move on.
 
#60
#60
JokermanVol said:
The rules still apply the same. They shouldn't have to bend over backwards for a crybaby just because of their circumstance. If he wants out, his agent can find a team dumb enough to trade for him.
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I understand this 100%, but they will if he's not the starter (after this season.) Let's face it, VY isn't the only guy in the league that would request a trade or release if he isn't a starter. There are hundreds of players out there that would do the exact same.
 
#61
#61
orangetanker11 said:
Not to mention that by "holding Vince hostage" sends a bad message to the rest of the players in the league. Tennessee will not be a free-agent friendly place to land. Right or wrong, players will not want to sign with a team that prevents its players the opportunity to play elsewhere if they are of no longer useful to their organization.

Since Vince isn't willing to be the bigger person, the Titans do need to be. If it ends up not working out here, let the guy go play elsewhere. The cap hit is not going to make or break this team since the Titans are a self-described "cap-friendly" organization. Take the hit, you made a made choice on drafting Young, suck it up and move on.
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That's not true at all.

Players won't want to sign to a team with a qb that sucks.

I'd love to be held hostage being paid millions.

Is Lienart being held hostage? He's in the same situation except he's not crying about it to the media.
 
#62
#62
orangetanker11 said:
It's also a giant waist of millions of dollars to not get a return on your investment.
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He is useful as a backup. It doesn't matter if they have room under the cap. In order to cut him and sign another guy is a giant waist of millions and would be incredibly stupid.
 
#63
#63
orangetanker11 said:
I understand this 100%, but they will if he's not the starter (after this season.) Let's face it, VY isn't the only guy in the league that would request a trade or release if he isn't a starter. There are hundreds of players out there that would do the exact same.
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how come we haven't heard Leinart crying to the media this off season?

How many backup qb's this off season have requested trades if they aren't made the starter?

I haven't heard much from Brady Quinn.
 
#64
#64
JZVOL said:
That's not true at all.

Players won't want to sign to a team with a qb that sucks.

I'd love to be held hostage being paid millions.

Is Lienart being held hostage? He's in the same situation except he's not crying about it to the media.
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--1. It is true. In many players' minds, they will look at this and think the Titans are not willing to negotiate, or meet in the middle, with their players. Never mind all of the good that happens with the organization and the players, as many players only focus on the negative.

--2. This is true, especially if you are a WR.

--3. I would too. However, think of a Fortune 500 business. Would they sit their former CEO in the lunchroom, while still paying him his millions, and bring in another guy to be the CEO and pay him millions? Negative. Why pay that much money for a guy, and not get your money's worth? Cut your lossess, and move on.

--4. I see your point.

See this from two different ways...

--If we were not really motivated, or didn't have a desire to play, we could sit on the bench and rake in the millions without having to do more than practicing.

--However, if we were truly motivated, and had a strong desire to play, whether we are being selfish or not, would we not want to go somewhere else to get our chance to play if our current organization has chosen to go in a different direction?
 
#65
#65
If Young was motivated he wouldn't have quit on the team last year when he was playing, instead whining to the media in the off season.

What players specifically will look at the Titans and think negatively about Young getting beat out and the team still paying him millions?

Again where is the outrage in Arizona over Leinart or Cleveland over Quinn? There are tons of first round picks that aren't starters, why is VY so special?
 
#66
#66
orangetanker11 said:
Not to mention that by "holding Vince hostage" sends a bad message to the rest of the players in the league. Tennessee will not be a free-agent friendly place to land. Right or wrong, players will not want to sign with a team that prevents its players the opportunity to play elsewhere if they are of no longer useful to their organization.

Since Vince isn't willing to be the bigger person, the Titans do need to be. If it ends up not working out here, let the guy go play elsewhere. The cap hit is not going to make or break this team since the Titans are a self-described "cap-friendly" organization. Take the hit, you made a made choice on drafting Young, suck it up and move on.
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How do you hold someone hostage who has pubically said he wants to stay?

Cutting him would send a much, much, much, much, much worse message. If they do that, he would lose millions.

The Titans are being the bigger person. They are continuing to pay that hack of a QB his contract. The one he signed. By choice.
 
#67
#67
orangetanker11 said:
--1. It is true. In many players' minds, they will look at this and think the Titans are not willing to negotiate, or meet in the middle, with their players. Never mind all of the good that happens with the organization and the players, as many players only focus on the negative.

--3. I would too. However, think of a Fortune 500 business. Would they sit their former CEO in the lunchroom, while still paying him his millions, and bring in another guy to be the CEO and pay him millions? Negative. Why pay that much money for a guy, and not get your money's worth? Cut your lossess, and move on.

--However, if we were truly motivated, and had a strong desire to play, whether we are being selfish or not, would we not want to go somewhere else to get our chance to play if our current organization has chosen to go in a different direction?
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1. Honoring a guy's request is not negotiating now? That's news to me.

VY's motivation was nothing more than to get the starting job handed to him.

3. Again, considering the cap hit they'd take and the going rate for even backup QBs, the cost of cutting him obviously outweighs price of just keeping him as a backup.
 
#68
#68
JZVOL said:
If Young was motivated he wouldn't have quit on the team last year when he was playing, instead whining to the media in the off season.

What players specifically will look at the Titans and think negatively about Young getting beat out and the team still paying him millions?

Again where is the outrage in Arizona over Leinart or Cleveland over Quinn? There are tons of first round picks that aren't starters, why is VY so special?
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--I don't think players are going to look at it like that. I do think that many will look at it as the Titans not being a player-friendly organization. A good way to look at it would be "Wow, what if they decide to go in a different direction with me in a few years. Am I going to be denied a chance to play elsewhere?"

--I'm not sure special is the word I would use, but I believe the difference is that Young made a Pro-Bowl, won Offensive Rookie of the Year, and was a starter for almost 2 seasons.

Steve McNair didn't want to be a backup, and he was given the opportunity to play elsewhere. What is so different with VY?

I'm not saying either side is right or wrong, but I don't see why the Titans would keep him under contract just so he can keep the bench warm. Please note the contract details below.

If VY doesn't show he's the QB they drafted him to be, I don't honestly see how they keep from releasing him.

Contract Info:
Signed a six-year, $58 million contract. The deal contains $25.74 million guaranteed, including a $2.64 million signing bonus and a $12.3 million option bonus in the second year. 2009: $2.16 million, 2010: $7.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2011: $8.5 million (+ $4.25 million roster bonus), 2012: Free Agent. Cap charges: $4.62 million (2009), $14.21 million (2010), $15.21 million (2011).


Now, as I said earlier in this thread, I think VY can still win the starting job as long as he is not messed up between the ears.
 
#69
#69
orangetanker11 said:
--I don't think players are going to look at it like that. I do think that many will look at it as the Titans not being a player-friendly organization. A good way to look at it would be "Wow, what if they decide to go in a different direction with me in a few years. Am I going to be denied a chance to play elsewhere?"
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Then they shouldn't worry about, because according to you it's lose/lose situation. Again, the Titans have acted as his agent and Young have requested.

Why do you keep repeating this idea that NFLers don't have to earn their starting position? I'm quite sure his contract doesn't promise that he'll be the starter and I'd guess he was aware of this too when he signed it.
 
#70
#70
JokermanVol said:
Then they shouldn't worry about, because according to you it's lose/lose situation. Again, the Titans have acted as his agent and Young have requested.

Why do you keep repeating this idea that NFLers don't have to earn their starting position? I'm quite sure his contract doesn't promise that he'll be the starter and I'd guess he was aware of this too when he signed it.
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Are you serious? You clearly missed my earlier post where I said "if he doesn't out play Collins, then release him." There is no NFL team in the league that will pay their BACKUP QB $14.1 million dollars, which he will earn per his contract in 2010. Before you start making up statements again, go back and read my earlier posts.

Also, it's not a lose/lose situation. If VY can't beat out Collins for the job, and he doesn't play in 2009, the Titans need to release him. Chalk one up to bad scouting/drafting on their part. If I'm not mistaken, it would be a $9 million dollar hit if they release him in 2009, but only a $4 million dollar hit in 2010. If anything, it's a win/win situation. They can get VY off of their books a year early, and VY can get a chance to play elsewhere.
 
#71
#71
orangetanker11 said:
Are you serious? You clearly missed my earlier post where I said "if he doesn't out play Collins, then release him." There is no NFL team in the league that will pay their BACKUP QB $14.1 million dollars, which he will earn per his contract in 2010. Before you start making up statements again, go back and read my earlier posts.

Also, it's not a lose/lose situation. If VY can't beat out Collins for the job, and he doesn't play in 2009, the Titans need to release him. Chalk one up to bad scouting/drafting on their part. If I'm not mistaken, it would be a $9 million dollar hit if they release him in 2009, but only a $4 million dollar hit in 2010. If anything, it's a win/win situation. They can get VY off of their books a year early, and VY can get a chance to play elsewhere.
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The "start him or cut him" train of thought is acting like someone deserves a starting job. Specifically you're saying he somehow is owed being cut because his contract is so big. The only thing he's owed is anything detailed in this contract and the inherent benefits you get as a NFLer.

I deal in actualities, not what someone or some team "should do." Teams do what's in their best interest and debating otherwise is often silly, especially since he's still a Titan and has now stated he wants to remain on the team.
 
#72
#72
JokermanVol said:
The "start him or cut him" train of thought is acting like someone deserves a starting job. Specifically you're saying he somehow is owed being cut because his contract is so big. The only thing he's owed is anything detailed in this contract and the inherent benefits you get as a NFLer.

I deal in actualities, not what someone or some team "should do." Teams do what's in their best interest and debating otherwise is often silly, especially since he's still a Titan and has now stated he wants to remain on the team.
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Can you honestly think it's in the Titans ' "best interest" to pay their backup QB $14.1 million in 2010?
 
#73
#73
orangetanker11 said:
Are you serious? You clearly missed my earlier post where I said "if he doesn't out play Collins, then release him." There is no NFL team in the league that will pay their BACKUP QB $14.1 million dollars, which he will earn per his contract in 2010. Before you start making up statements again, go back and read my earlier posts.

Also, it's not a lose/lose situation. If VY can't beat out Collins for the job, and he doesn't play in 2009, the Titans need to release him. Chalk one up to bad scouting/drafting on their part. If I'm not mistaken, it would be a $9 million dollar hit if they release him in 2009, but only a $4 million dollar hit in 2010. If anything, it's a win/win situation. They can get VY off of their books a year early, and VY can get a chance to play elsewhere.
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That's been the point all along. You said release him before the season, everyone else is saying after the season, but before 2010.
 
#74
#74
orangetanker11 said:
Are you serious? You clearly missed my earlier post where I said "if he doesn't out play Collins, then release him." There is no NFL team in the league that will pay their BACKUP QB $14.1 million dollars, which he will earn per his contract in 2010. Before you start making up statements again, go back and read my earlier posts.

Also, it's not a lose/lose situation. If VY can't beat out Collins for the job, and he doesn't play in 2009, the Titans need to release him. Chalk one up to bad scouting/drafting on their part. If I'm not mistaken, it would be a $9 million dollar hit if they release him in 2009, but only a $4 million dollar hit in 2010. If anything, it's a win/win situation. They can get VY off of their books a year early, and VY can get a chance to play elsewhere.
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So then there should be no back up qb's in the NFL and every team should release the guy that gets beat out?

Why is VY so different than the other qb's in the NFL?

Answer, he's the only one that opened his mouth to the media- so far.
 
#75
#75
orangetanker11 said:
Can you honestly think it's in the Titans ' "best interest" to pay their backup QB $14.1 million in 2010?
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We have all said release him after the season. I've even stated they aren't going to pay him the roster bonus he is owed after the season.

You have said up until now release him before the season. That has been the difference.
 
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