Vitale: SEC 5th best Conference

#78
#78
BasketvolsFan said:
You can't say it this year either! You continue to get carried away by early season wins against poor opponents. We will know much more about this team after tomorrow night. At this point, I do not expect to win. Saying the SEC is better than the Big 10 is beyond stupid.
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I guess tonight you enjoyed Alabama beating Michigan?

Did you enjoy Florida beating Michigan State?

Did you like Minnesota losing to unranked Texas A&M?

Just wondering...

More SEC than Big Ten will be ranked...hmmm...lets look in the next few weeks.
 
#79
#79
Hardwood_fanatic said:
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, he did not specify WHICH tournament for Ark and SC. Its Thanksgiving BPV, some should get a pass.
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They'll have to add two or three more meaningless postseason tournaments for Arkansas to have games after the SEC Tournament.
 
#81
#81
MikeHamiltonFan said:
It is crazy how far apart we are when it comes to the Big 10!

Lets see,
Nova, Syracuse, UConn, Louisville, Notre Dame, Pitt, Cincy, West Virginia...

I think they may have taken a step back as a conference this year from last years incredible dominance but I still think they beat the Big 10 over and over in a head to head of best 10 versus.
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Pitt == no good
Louisville == not top 25
UConn == barely top 25. can't score to save themselves.
 
#82
#82
MikeHamiltonFan said:
I guess tonight you enjoyed Alabama beating Michigan?

Did you enjoy Florida beating Michigan State?

Did you like Minnesota losing to unranked Texas A&M?

Just wondering...

More SEC than Big Ten will be ranked...hmmm...lets look in the next few weeks.
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You are setting yourself up to get absolutely blasted later in the year. The SEC is not better than the Big 10.
 
#83
#83
emainvol said:
You are setting yourself up to get absolutely blasted later in the year. The SEC is not better than the Big 10.
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Wait til Tennessee goes to LA and beats that USC juggernaut. That'll get the SEC some positive press.
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#86
#86
Vitale, like Corso, is a personality and nothing more. They will say whatever they need to, to stay in the spotlight.
 
#88
#88
CALISKING said:
Yes I am a Memphis fan, but also a realist. Do you not realize that in addition to our previous coach leaving and taking the #1 recruiting class with him, we also had our usual attrition from graduation and early NBA entry (a foreign concept on the Hill). Pastner has only 8 scholarship players, most of which were role players at best on the previous teams. In what logical universe should this team, even playing at home, beat a consensus Top 10 team?

As far as UT ever getting a shot at Pastner when BP leaves, keep dreaming. It would be a step down from where he is now. He, like Cal, would only leave for the ARizona job + any of the handful of Premiere jobs (UCLA, Duke, UNC, UK).
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By MHF's logic whichever team one roots for should always be the favorite.
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#89
#89
emainvol said:
MHF, do you still honestly think that the SEC is better than the Big 10?
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I have now watched a lot more of the Big 10 teams play and I would say if the SEC is better it is not by much. I would say that there is no way you can argue that the Big 10 is much better than the SEC.

I will use the updated standings and update my head to head guesses.
 
#90
#90
MikeHamiltonFan said:
I have now watched a lot more of the Big 10 teams play and I would say if the SEC is better it is not by much. I would say that there is no way you can argue that the Big 10 is much better than the SEC.

I will use the updated standings and update my head to head guesses.
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Have you been watching the Big 10--ACC challenge games? Do you honestly think the SEC would do as well as the Big 10 has done?
 
#91
#91
BVF, Would the SEC win as many games? I am not sure. I did watch almost all of the games as I had two DVRs going.

I do not know if Wisconsin is awesome defensively or Duke just is not as incredible offensively as I thought.

NC State lost in a game they would have lost to ETSU shooting as badly as they were. They were missing lots of uncontested 3s as well. I thought they showed very bad coaching.

Clemson? Better than Illinois still right? I mean it seemed like they knew they won so they quit playing hard. It was awful.

I think UNC will wax UK. I am hoping for the conference strength I am wrong.

I think GT would beat almost all SEC teams and I am glad they are out of the challenge you are speaking of.

Florida beat FSU, and it was not even remotely close. I have not watched any other ACC SEC games I can remember off the top of my head.

I was not impressed with Boston College, or with UVA. I think the ACC has GT, UNC and Duke as teams that could beat badly most any SEC team but overall I think as a conference they are a good deal behind the Big East.

I would now say
Big East

a good bit behind them
ACC

then Big 12, Big 10 and SEC are all very close. The third best league will be determined by how many of the middle of the pack schools, the Minnesota's, the Vanderbilt's, the Baylors play through the rest of the year.
 
#92
#92
I don't know how anyone can argue that the Big 10 is not at least the third best league and right behind the ACC when two of the teams most were picking to finish in the bottom half of the conference beat what were nearly the consensus 2nd and 3rd teams in the ACC.

You are losing this argument, and you don't want to admit it.
 
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#93
#93
Also, your arguments lack consistency. Florida beats MSU and you use that as evidence that the SEC is better than the Big 10, but Illinois beats Clemson on their home floor and Clemson and the ACC are still better?
 
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#94
#94
Again, you are letting facts get in the way of MHF's reasoning. You should know by now that factual information is not a requirement for his posts.
 
#95
#95
emainvol said:
Also, your arguments lack consistency. Florida beats MSU and you use that as evidence that the SEC is better than the Big 10, but Illinois beats Clemson on their home floor and Clemson and the ACC are still better?
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Wait are you saying that Illinois is better than Clemson?

Are you willing to say that Florida is better than Michigan State?

There will be plenty of evidence in the coming months as to whether I am right or you are right regarding the Big Ten being better than the SEC.

I watched the Florida MSU game and the Illinois Clemson game. MSU was not winning by 20 plus and then quit playing hard...
 
#96
#96
MikeHamiltonFan said:
Wait are you saying that Illinois is better than Clemson?
Are you willing to say that Florida is better than Michigan State?

There will be plenty of evidence in the coming months as to whether I am right or you are right regarding the Big Ten being better than the SEC.

I watched the Florida MSU game and the Illinois Clemson game. MSU was not winning by 20 plus and then quit playing hard...
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I think he is saying that your not using the same criteria to back up your arguments.

If in your mind, Florida beating Mich St makes the SEC greater than the Big ten.

then......

It should also mean that if Illinois beat Clemson that the Big Ten is by default better than the ACC.

This is the formula you are using (From what I can see). You use it to make your case for the SEC, but then disregard it when applying it to others.


As for the actual argument....

By no means do I think the SEC is better than the Big Ten, but I am not ready to jump out there and say the Big Ten is superior in any way to the SEC. Both have three teams in the top 25. Top to bottom, maybe the Big Ten has a few advantages. Its not a run-away win for either conference, and by the end of the year its probably a totally different story.
 
#97
#97
Hardwood_fanatic said:
I think he is saying that your not using the same criteria to back up your arguments.

If in your mind, Florida beating Mich St makes the SEC greater than the Big ten.

then......

It should also mean that if Illinois beat Clemson that the Big Ten is by default better than the ACC.

This is the formula you are using (From what I can see). You use it to make your case for the SEC, but then disregard it when applying it to others.
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You nailed it.
 
#98
#98
I've got to give props to MHF. Although I think he talks in circles alot, he has consistently tried to back up his side of the argument. He has made efforts to refrain from resorting to lame insults when someone disagrees with his opinion, such as "go kill yourself" or "go drink drano" and avoiding the topic altogether. He stands his ground, regardless of how shaky that ground may be.

With that said - MHF - I must agree with most of the other posters in this thread. Your argument is seriously flawed and you are running around in circles. You've got to use the same criteria across the board when comparing conferences or teams. Otherwise, you will get blasted, as already shown.
 
#99
#99
Hardwood_fanatic said:
As for the actual argument....

By no means do I think the SEC is better than the Big Ten, but I am not ready to jump out there and say the Big Ten is superior in any way to the SEC. Both have three teams in the top 25. Top to bottom, maybe the Big Ten has a few advantages. Its not a run-away win for either conference, and by the end of the year its probably a totally different story.
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Scratch this paragraph from the archives. I have been on a camping trip for 4 days, with no TV or internet. I just finished watching some of the Big Ten/ACC challenge, and I can say with confidence that the Big Ten is better than the SEC, IMO. It could change by seasons end, however.
 
#100
#100
PandamoniumReigns said:
I've got to give props to MHF. Although I think he talks in circles alot, he has consistently tried to back up his side of the argument. He has made efforts to refrain from resorting to lame insults when someone disagrees with his opinion, such as "go kill yourself" or "go drink drano" and avoiding the topic altogether. He stands his ground, regardless of how shaky that ground may be.

With that said - MHF - I must agree with most of the other posters in this thread. Your argument is seriously flawed and you are running around in circles. You've got to use the same criteria across the board when comparing conferences or teams. Otherwise, you will get blasted, as already shown.
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Panda,

I watched both the games discussed. I think sometimes the "better team" can lose a game head to head. If for instance Alabama lost to Auburn in football the "better team" lost. In the same way, TN was better than UCLA and would win that game 9/10 times, it just so happened that Crompton had one of the worst QB performances I have ever witnessed.

The Florida team that I have been watching looks really strong. They did not beat MSU because MSU had its best players foul out, they did not win because MSU had a freakishly bad game from 3 (like NC State against NW) or because Florida had a freakishly good game from 3 (a great equalizer that sometimes sends "worse" teams past their betters in the tournament until the heat cools).

Did you watch the Illinois Clemson game? Clemson and NC State honestly looked horribly coached to me. It is unreal how flat they were in the 2nd half giving away a gigantic lead (20 plus points), turning the ball over without defensive pressure causing it etc. It was just really hard to watch.

If I argued that the SEC was the equal to the Big East, I would be deservedly laughed at. If and when the SEC is widely accepted as better than the Big 10 after some more OOC victories (I posted about all of those opportunities) then people will say I guessed...oh well. If Miss. State gets Sidney and is a top 15 team by March, people will say that the Big Ten was better than the SEC back in December, but that things changed by March.

I do not see any credible arguments that the Big 10 is significantly better than the SEC. Both conferences have teams that are painfully bad (Iowa, Arkansas) both conferences have teams that could get to the Final 4 (UK, UT, UF, MSU, Purdue)...which conference is better depends on teams 5-9 and how they do.
 
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