VN, help! Manning vs. Brady (long but worth it)

#51
#51
butchna said:
Not taking your post as belittling Manning...You have some excellent points, but I want to weigh in on the talent surrounding Peyton. Marvin Harrison is sure fire HOF inductee and Reggie Wayne when finished jump starting Andrew Luck' s career will likely join him....But how stellar were their talents without Manning? There are singular receivers in NFL lore who would have been great no matter who flung the ball...Jerry Rice, Chris Carter, Randy Moss....terrellowens...modern examples Calvin Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald....Harrison and Wayne, while outstanding receivers, are not HOF level without PM elevating their stats IMO...along with Clark and Austin Collie, Indy's offensive talent has always been cited as Manning advantage...Indy's offensive line,with the exception of Tarik Glenn and Jeff Saturday, was pedestrian at best...especially when compared to New England's QB protectors. I will always maintain Branch, Givens and Bethel Johnson would have been cast as excellent targets for Manning had stars been aligned differently...Hey! Look at the time!...fun topic! :question: :cool2:
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I think Reggie Wayne is currently proving how good his talents are. And with the exception of Matt Light and Logan Mankins, what great offensive lineman has Brady been surrounded by?
 
#52
#52
Brady can thank Brushci, Vrabel, Seymour, Harrison, and that gaggle of goons on the NE defense for his 3 rings. That was a whale of a defense. Come to think of it, he hasn't had a ring since that doom squad left. Tommy started out 8-0 against Manning when he had these Nazis. Since then? He's 1-4 against Peyton. Who have the Dolts had on defense? Freeney and.....uhh, Freeney....and....uhh......wait........
 
#53
#53
iluvsmesumdooley said:
Brady can thank Brushci, Vrabel, Seymour, Harrison, and that gaggle of goons on the NE defense for his 3 rings. That was a whale of a defense. Come to think of it, he hasn't had a ring since that doom squad left. Tommy started out 8-0 against Manning when he had these Nazis. Since then? He's 1-4 against Peyton. Who have the Dolts had on defense? Freeney and.....uhh, Freeney....and....uhh......wait........
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The 2004 defense wasn't anything special. Hell they were so decimated by injury they had to convert Troy Brown to cornerback. You know who else started at cb that year? Earthwind Moreland. Yeah that's right Earthwind Moreland. So please spare me that it was all great defense that won them their three Super Bowls.
 
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#54
#54
One more thing - I love the post about Matt Cassel - who absolutely tore it UP in KC (eyes rolling) - going 11-5 in NE after Bernard Pollard did his thang on Brady. People forget that the Patsies were good with Bledsoe. Heck, they won the AFC only a couple of years before Brady started! Tell me, how were the Dolts before Manning? Another checkmate, boys.

Jim Irsay said he released Manning because he had to do what was good for the Horseshoe. Manning WAS the Horseshoe, you brainless dolt. The Patsies now have a great defense again. They were good before Brady got there, they were good when he was hurt, and they will be good when Tommy runs off into the sunset with Giselle.
 
#55
#55
iluvsmesumdooley said:
One more thing - I love the post about Matt Cassel - who absolutely tore it UP in KC (eyes rolling) - going 11-5 in NE after Bernard Pollard did his thang on Brady. People forget that the Patsies were good with Bledsoe. Heck, they won the AFC only a couple of years before Brady started! Tell me, how were the Dolts before Manning? Another checkmate, boys.

Jim Irsay said he released Manning because he had to do what was good for the Horseshoe. Manning WAS the Horseshoe, you brainless dolt. The Patsies now have a great defense again. They were good before Brady got there, they were good when he was hurt, and they will be good when Tommy runs off into the sunset with Giselle.
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They won the AFC five years before Brady took over, not a couple.
 
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#56
#56
iluvsmesumdooley said:
One more thing - I love the post about Matt Cassel - who absolutely tore it UP in KC (eyes rolling) - going 11-5 in NE after Bernard Pollard did his thang on Brady. People forget that the Patsies were good with Bledsoe. Heck, they won the AFC only a couple of years before Brady started! Tell me, how were the Dolts before Manning? Another checkmate, boys.

Jim Irsay said he released Manning because he had to do what was good for the Horseshoe. Manning WAS the Horseshoe, you brainless dolt. The Patsies now have a great defense again. They were good before Brady got there, they were good when he was hurt, and they will be good when Tommy runs off into the sunset with Giselle.
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And oh yeah, the Colts were a dropped Hail Mary away from going to the Super Bowl three years before they drafted Manning.
 
#57
#57
I think Manning > Brady, but if you think it's an open and shut case you're being a blind homer. Tom Brady is one of the best players at the position, ever.
 
#58
#58
Brady won his SBs when the pats were doing spygate. We will never know who would have won if that didn't happen. Cheaters I say!! Cheaters...
 
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#59
#59
You're never going to win one of these "best ever" arguments. It's all a matter of opinion, and in the end it doesn't really matter.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
 
#60
#60
Mountain Man said:
When arguing great quarterbacks I can't forget Elway. He led Denver to 3 superbowls without a defense or running game. Denver is in their best position to win since Elway retired. I really think Peyton could get 2 more rings before he's done.

When it comes to class Brady couldn't stand on Billicheck's shoulders and kiss Peyton's butt. Brady as a single man was fooling around with Bridgett Moynahan and denied it :rolleyes:. If had been me I would have shirts made and put it on billboards ;)
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Didnt Elway have Terrell Davis?
 
#63
#63
Boston Vol said:
The 2004 defense wasn't anything special. Hell they were so decimated by injury they had to convert Troy Brown to cornerback. You know who else started at cb that year? Earthwind Moreland. Yeah that's right Earthwind Moreland. So please spare me that it was all great defense that won them their three Super Bowls.
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I can't believe that is a real name. (yes I can) But I love it
 
#64
#64
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
You're never going to win one of these "best ever" arguments. It's all a matter of opinion, and in the end it doesn't really matter.
Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Exactly!

Depending on which stats you choose to look at or ignore the argument can go either way.

Both are excellent at what they do, it's been a pleasure to watch both.
 
#66
#66
Boston Vol said:
I think Reggie Wayne is currently proving how good his talents are. And with the exception of Matt Light and Logan Mankins, what great offensive lineman has Brady been surrounded by?
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Good...don't disagree...read previous post...as far as your linemen, as a whole better quality...Damien Woody was Pro Bowl quality too..don't feel like googling your past rosters but Brady did a commercial with some of the "spares" that blocked for him :eek:k:
 
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#67
#67
butchna said:
Good...don't disagree...read previous post...as far as your linemen, as a whole better quality...Damien Woody was Pro Bowl quality too..don't feel like googling your past rosters but Brady did a commercial with some of the "spares" that blocked for him :eek:k:
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Andruzzi and Koppen were respectable. Mike Compton had some nice seasons. Ryan Lilja wasn't too bad for the colts.
 
#68
#68
Vercingetorix said:
Manning has never played on an NFL team that could win any other way besides Manning throwing the ball. He has never had good defenses, or a running game that was anything other than a changeup. And only being able to do one thing is usually deadly in the playoffs. I think it's generally a fair criticism, despite all their regular season success.

The funny thing about Brady is that he's become a much better QB as his career has gone on -- but the team quit winning titles. He was pretty much just a game manager type back at the beginning of their run.
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I would agree that for the most part, Manning has played with mediocre to poor defenses. That being said, the one year the Colts won the Super Bowl, their defense played really well the last half of the season and into the Super Bowl. For the most part of their careers, Manning's probably had a better supporting cast offensively, but we all know offense won't win championships in the end. Look at how many times the Colts had great regular seasons and then didn't get it done it the playoffs. Not Manning's fault, but there were some bad games for him along the way, especially against Pitt and another one at NE...

When looked at objectively, there's not that big of a difference between the two. Both have been great QBs. Manning, though, is simply greater of the two as a signal caller. His overall stats compared to Brady's for a career are much better. His ability to reinvent offenses is better. Brady is great in both departments, just not as great as Manning.

It shouldn't be compared to something like Manning vs Woodson.

Manning is better, but not by as much as some here think
 
#69
#69
Ask him what happened when Brady went down with a knee injury? Then ask him what happened when Peyton was out in 2011? Then say...oh that's right Pats went 11-5 and Colts got the number 1 pick in the draft in 2012! Nuff said. Those northerners are ignorant. Ask him also whose better ...Dilfer or Marino? Get what I'm saying?
 
#70
#70
Unless either one wins a lot more playoffs or another SB or 2, it's going to be hard to tell. I think you guys are shooting down the argument too quickly.

I don't think Brady would be where he is today without Belicheck. He isn't a coach who happens to play QB like Manning.

Manning did play with less, but NE always took a bunch of nobodies a lot of times and did well so I'm not sure that arguement is so far apart. Brady has had to deal with his fair share of nobodies.

People point to Manning and talk about his "meltdowns" in the playoffs. One reason is I think because we don't notice the mistakes in the regular season because if they lose one or 2 its not a big deal, so we think he is perfect. Then the playoffs get here and we see a late pick and think holy crap what happened to him???

I have no problem with Brady seen as the better QB. We pick Manning as our #1 but he doesn't affect our team. Pat fans want the 3 SB rings instead of 1 and you can't blame them.

My final point is this is how I view the competition: There is none. If you want to start a franchise from the ground up you go with Manning 10x/10x. When the team gets on their feet and does decent and you wanna make a few SB runs you go with Brady.
 
#71
#71
Other_Guy said:
Unless either one wins a lot more playoffs or another SB or 2, it's going to be hard to tell. I think you guys are shooting down the argument too quickly.

I don't think Brady would be where he is today without Belicheck. He isn't a coach who happens to play QB like Manning.

Manning did play with less, but NE always took a bunch of nobodies a lot of times and did well so I'm not sure that arguement is so far apart. Brady has had to deal with his fair share of nobodies.

People point to Manning and talk about his "meltdowns" in the playoffs. One reason is I think because we don't notice the mistakes in the regular season because if they lose one or 2 its not a big deal, so we think he is perfect. Then the playoffs get here and we see a late pick and think holy crap what happened to him???

I have no problem with Brady seen as the better QB. We pick Manning as our #1 but he doesn't affect our team. Pat fans want the 3 SB rings instead of 1 and you can't blame them.

My final point is this is how I view the competition: There is none. If you want to start a franchise from the ground up you go with Manning 10x/10x. When the team gets on their feet and does decent and you wanna make a few SB runs you go with Brady.
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Actually if it was today you would choose Rogers due to his age
 
#72
#72
#1ManningFan said:
Ask him what happened when Brady went down with a knee injury? Then ask him what happened when Peyton was out in 2011? Then say...oh that's right Pats went 11-5 and Colts got the number 1 pick in the draft in 2012! Nuff said. Those northerners are ignorant. Ask him also whose better ...Dilfer or Marino? Get what I'm saying?
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The Dilfer vs Marion argument isn't remotely an accurate comparison of the one of Manning vs Brady.
Bringing that kind of argument into embarrasses our fanbase. Just stop

As I have said, I believe Manning to be better, but Brady is one of the best ever. Marino is one of the best ever. Dilfer isn't even in the discussion.
 
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#73
#73
I always tell the brady lovers that if he didnt have a great kicker he wouldnt have won sh**. In a lot of new englands wins they were behind but only by a point or two. Brady gets the ball leads an "amazing" 20 yard drive and somebody kicks a 45-50 yard fg to win the game. If the pats are down more than 3 at the end of the game, more timez than not brady cant get them in the endzone. Just like the playoff game against the colts where they had the ball at the end with a chance to win. Brady got them close to fg position but then threw a pick, iirc
 
#74
#74
I think Manning is probably overall the best QB ever, but QB reps are made in the postseason. Only a very blind homer would be unable to admit that Manning is usually a much weaker QB in the playoffs. No it's not all his fault but if he's going to get the credit, then he's to take the blame too. That's just the way it is.

Overall Brady has been the better postseason QB; his days of being clutch in the playoffs seem to be over. But if the Broncos continue to roll and end up the best in the AFC and get upset again, Peyton's legacy of being the best regular season QB and the abti-clutch in the playoffs will be cemented.
 
#75
#75
UrbanCryer said:
I always tell the brady lovers that if he didnt have a great kicker he wouldnt have won sh**. In a lot of new englands wins they were behind but only by a point or two. Brady gets the ball leads an "amazing" 20 yard drive and somebody kicks a 45-50 yard fg to win the game. If the pats are down more than 3 at the end of the game, more timez than not brady cant get them in the endzone. Just like the playoff game against the colts where they had the ball at the end with a chance to win. Brady got them close to fg position but then threw a pick, iirc
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If the 2006 Colts' defense doesn't step up, the Colts don't win that Super Bowl. Manning was pretty average looking that entire playoff run.
 
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