VN, help! Manning vs. Brady (long but worth it)

Not really. Montana was great, but he is overrated. In San Francisco he won SBs and only played in 6 close playoff games (winning margin 7 or less). He was 3-3 in those games.

Most people don't remember this, but Montana had some TERRIBLE playoff results during his prime. In '85 and '87 his teams only put up 3 points in the opening rounds of the playoffs. If Manning did that during his prime all you would ever hear is choker.

Did you just say Montana is overrated? Lol 4-0 in SBs 3 MVPs 68% comp. 11tds 0 let me say that again 0 int. A 127 passer rating. Yeah he's definitely overrated. Joe didn't have a lot of close games in the playoffs cause he generally destroyed people especially in the Super Bowl well except that time he took his team 92 yards to win the game. Anyone that would pick Manning over Joe in the clutch is absolutely insane. Joe is widely considered the GOAT. The reason Joe isn't considered a choker for those couple playoff flops? 4 for 4, nobody every performed better when it counted the most, and you can't make an argument against that. I understand THE PM love but don't be crazy.
 
There is only one QB in NFL history who has led his team to five consecutive 4th quarter comeback wins. Guess who it is? Hint: It's NOT Joe Montana.

Only one NFL QB in history has had 7 fourth quarter comeback wins in one season. Again, it's NOT Joe Montana.

Joe Montana is 5th all-time in 4th quarter comeback wins -- when the game is on the line. When the chips were down and the game was on the line, he did it 31 times. Guess who is #1 all-time? Hint: He's done it 10 more times than Montana did and he's still playing.

This argument cracks me up. PM has more cause he was in that situation more. Joe generally waxed teams its not rocket surgery. Maybe he should have been losing more often late so he could get his come from behind victories up. SMH Anyone that doesn't have orange tinted glasses on knows Montana was the greatest.
 
Question: What happened in the playoffs last year? PM 3 ints that lead to 17 pts, including a pic in ot. PM might be the greatest regular season QB, but the playoffs have not been kind.
 
Did you just say Montana is overrated? Lol 4-0 in SBs 3 MVPs 68% comp. 11tds 0 let me say that again 0 int. A 127 passer rating. Yeah he's definitely overrated. Joe didn't have a lot of close games in the playoffs cause he generally destroyed people especially in the Super Bowl well except that time he took his team 92 yards to win the game. Anyone that would pick Manning over Joe in the clutch is absolutely insane. Joe is widely considered the GOAT. The reason Joe isn't considered a choker for those couple playoff flops? 4 for 4, nobody every performed better when it counted the most, and you can't make an argument against that. I understand THE PM love but don't be crazy.

The Montana love isn't as easily understood. I appreciate you posting some stats about Montana and his playoff performances. Allow me to post some more, which I hope will add some context.

The Colts rushing game averaged 70 yards per game in Peyton's playoff games with them, compared to 117 for Brady's New England and 152 (!) for Montana's SF SB champs. The Colts running game contributed 2 whole TDs! Pats running game contributed 7 and 49'ers 15.

The Colts defense allowed opponents an average of 27 points per game. The Pats: 17. The 49'ers: 13.

Football is a TEAM game. TEAMS win games and championships. Look at the individual stats and there's no way you can seriously put either Brady or Montana over Manning. That's why you have to use TEAM arguments and subjective statements of opinion to make the argument.
 
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This argument cracks me up. PM has more cause he was in that situation more. Joe generally waxed teams its not rocket surgery. Maybe he should have been losing more often late so he could get his come from behind victories up. SMH Anyone that doesn't have orange tinted glasses on knows Montana was the greatest.

Here we go with the excuses. People making losing arguments always have excuses to try to dismiss facts.
 
Question: What happened in the playoffs last year? PM 3 ints that lead to 17 pts, including a pic in ot. PM might be the greatest regular season QB, but the playoffs have not been kind.

I recall a pass that was thrown over the heads of the Denver defensive backfield.

But if you want to blame the whole thing on Peyton Manning on a Tennessee Vol board, then go right ahead.

Not a VFL move, IMO.
 
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So now it's the coaches and not his "change-up" rb?

I just don't agree with all the excuse making for Manning. The one thing that can be said is the Colts defense wasn't good. Outside of that he had all the tools and weapons needed to win.

It has barely mattered whether Manning had interchangeable, average RBs or Edgerrin James. The running game has always been a changeup for the Colts, especially in the playoffs. I don't believe I ever said anything about the actual talent level at all.
 
Now post Montana, Brady and Mannings Super Bowl stats, when the game matters the most. Its a pass happy league now of course present players are going to.have better stats than Montana. Hell there will probably be 10 current guys with more yards and Tds than Montana, and none of them will be better.
 
Here we go with the excuses. People making losing arguments always have excuses to try to dismiss facts.

Excuses, dismissing facts? What I said is a fact. Losing arguments? Analysts, experts, ex players widely consider Montana the best. But what do they know, the guy on the message board says otherwise.
 
I recall a pass that was thrown over the heads of the Denver defensive backfield.

But if you want to blame the whole thing on Peyton Manning on a Tennessee Vol board, then go right ahead.

Not a VFL move, IMO.

Did I blame the whole thing on PM? I stated facts, I know how you like those.

Not a VFL because I can be objective? Lol
 
Now post Montana, Brady and Mannings Super Bowl stats, when the game matters the most. Its a pass happy league now of course present players are going to.have better stats than Montana. Hell there will probably be 10 current guys with more yards and Tds than Montana, and none of them will be better.

It's bad enough I have to look up stats to support my own argument. Get your own stats.

On second thought...I'll throw you a bone. Only 3 QBs in the history of the NFL have thrown 300+ yards with no INTs and had a rushing TD in their first playoff game. Peyton didn't do it, but Joe Montana did.

So there. Don't say I'm not fair.

BTW, the other two were Brett Favre and Tim Tebow.
 
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It's bad enough I have to look up stats to support my own argument. Get your own stats.

On second thought...I'll throw you a bone. Only 3 QBs in the history of the NFL have thrown 300+ yards with no INTs and had a rushing TD in their first playoff game. Peyton didn't do it, but Joe Montana did.

So there. Don't say I'm not fair.

BTW, the other two were Brett Favre and Tim Tebow.

Lol thanks I'm lazy, I just know Montana's SB stats cause they are silly good.


Wait are you saying Tebow>>>>PM? And I'm not VFL...:)
 
Now post Montana, Brady and Mannings Super Bowl stats, when the game matters the most. Its a pass happy league now of course present players are going to.have better stats than Montana. Hell there will probably be 10 current guys with more yards and Tds than Montana, and none of them will be better.

You're onto something with this post. But I think you miss the bigger point.

You're right that it's a different league now. But this is another argument that favors Peyton. Because he is eventually going to be viewed as more than just another great QB. He is going to be viewed as a transformational player -- a player who changed the game.

Before Peyton Manning came along, a 4,000 yard passing season was something of a rarity. Joe Namath was the first one to do it. And he managed it only once, in 1967. Others followed -- some big names and some not-so-big. But it was still a pretty rare feat. And it was still considered to be a huge accomplishment.

Dan Marino broke the mold with six 4,000 yard seasons in his illustrious career. Before him, Dan Fouts was the only guy to have done it more than twice. Warren Moon came along and did it 4 times. Steve Young did it twice.

Only 13 other QBs, before Peyton, had EVER thrown for more than 4,000 yards in a single season. And they had each only managed to do it once. John Elway was one of the guys who did it once. Joe Montana NEVER did it. Neither did Terry Bradshaw. In fact, a lot of guys who are considered to be among the greatest to ever play the QB position never did it in their careers -- way too many to name. Put it this way: think of some of the greatest QB names to ever play the game and chances are they never passed for 4,000 yards in a single season.

Think about that when you consider that Peyton Manning has AVERAGED more than 4,000 yards passing per season over the course of his career. Put that together with his high career passer rating, his plethora of NFL records (including most league MVPs) and his SB ring and it's pretty compelling evidence.

4,000 yard passing seasons are becoming a lot more commonplace nowadays. But no one is even close to Peyton. And he started the trend. That makes him more than just another great QB. That makes him the best ever.
 
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Montana supporters act like he is a god and that there isn't even a conversation about GOAT. That is why he is overrated. His team won 4 SBs and we fill in the rest of the narrative with false ideas that match that level of greatness he achieved.

Fact: Montana never won a playoff game when the opposition scored 28 and was 1-3 when the opposition scored 24.

Montana and Brady supporters don't seem to understand how much winning is impacted by factors other than the QB.
 
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True numbers wise he is the best, but numbers like SB wins doesn't solidify someone being the GOAT. It honestly just depends on your criteria for judging greatness. Numbers, SB wins, performance on the biggest stage. You are obviously a numbers guy, I'm a big stage guy. To me Montana is the GOAT for the same reason MJ is in basketball, performance in the biggest game. Nobody has performed like Joe in the Super Bowl. I do wonder though if PM had the SBs and Brady had the numbers, would the 2 sides switch their arguments? Would the numbers guys become rings guys, and the rings guys become numbers guys. Ftr Montana is about my 6th favorite QB ever and I hate MJ but by how I judge greatness I can't argue against them.
 
Imagine Manning on those great San Francisco teams throwing to Jerry Rice and Co. You think there's no way they win at least as many SBs? I think a lot of really good QBs would have won as many. Just one man's opinion.
 
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Montana supporters act like he is a god and that there isn't even a conversation about GOAT. That is why he is overrated. His team won 4 SBs and we fill in the rest of the narrative with false ideas that match that level of greatness he achieved.

Fact: Montana never won a playoff game when the opposition scored 28 and was 1-3 when the opposition scored 24.

Montana and Brady supporters don't seem to understand how much winning is impacted by factors other than the QB.

Lol false ideas? His Super Bowl numbers don't lie. It's not something I made up it happened and isn't disputable.

You are right I'm sure the experts and ex players that agree that Montana is the greatest, and there is a ton of them, probably don't understand that other factors play in to winning. SMH
 
Imagine Manning on those great San Francisco teams throwing to Jerry Rice and Co. You think there's no way they win at least as many SBs? I think a lot of really good QBs would have won as many. Just one man's opinion.

Hey I agree with that 100%. PM, Marino, Moon probably would have won multiple Super Bowls on that team. But what stands out personally is his performance in those games.
 
By the simple fact that we are UT fans, a lot would switch sides. For me it's not really about SBs or numbers, though both factor. Manning is the most consistent winner. Going 4-0 in SBs is statistically likely to be a fluke (not saying it is).

Since his rookie year Manning has had 9 12-win seasons (Montana 3; Brady 6; Elway 4) and only one losing season (6-10 his 3rd year). Inputs have changed all around him for 13 years and he just pumps out double-digit wins, no matter what. Playing with an injured neck he won 10 games with almost the exact same pieces that won 2 games the next year with Kerry Collins, etc.

This level of consistent winning over time is unmistakably a tribute to Manning's greatness. Nobody is in the conversation with him in this regard, IMO.
 
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Hey I agree with that 100%. PM, Marino, Moon probably would have won multiple Super Bowls on that team. But what stands out personally is his performance in those games.

He had some great performances, no doubt. But he had a LOT of help. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit that. If he didn't have that great team around him, he might have had to take a few more risks and he might not have looked as solid. A lot of really good QBs have looked worse trying to win with teams that weren't as good as Joe's.
 
Lol false ideas? His Super Bowl numbers don't lie. It's not something I made up it happened and isn't disputable.

You are right I'm sure the experts and ex players that agree that Montana is the greatest, and there is a ton of them, probably don't understand that other factors play in to winning. SMH

Yeah, remember when you said this? He's 3-3 in close playoff games, yet you act like he's in a league of his own in that regard.

If it's a close game it's Montana

Then there is everyone else.
 
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