Vol uniform/helmet design discussion (merged)

[bleedorange0037]

As long as we have orange on the uniform and a giant power T on the helmet I don't think anyone is going to mistake who we are. I think trying new things, in an Alternate Jersey type way, would be a good thing to try once a year. Why not? Its not like people are going to forget the words to Rocky Top if we come out with orange helmets or something.

Oregon is all over the map with different greens and yellows. We could do it in a much more subdued manner. Always keep the orange Vol orange but just do some color swapping between the orange and white on the uniforms and helmets. Or even put some other complimentary colors (black or gray) on the alternate jerseys but still keep the core idea as orange and white.

Its not a slippery slope where in a few years we are going to ditch the orange and white. Its just using variation to change things up from time to time.

I don't think anybody thinks that. IMO, as well as many others, the thing that really makes our uniforms cool and what sets them apart from a lot of other schools is that we essentially wear the exact same uniforms that we wore in 1950. How many other schools can make that claim? There basically isn't a person alive watching football today that turn a game on and not instantly identify our look because that's the only way they have ever seen UT's uniforms look.

 

[bleedorange0037]

Who cares? As long as the players are happy and we win.

Why the hell do people think the players should have any sort of say in the matter? They should just be proud that they are given the privilege of suiting up in the same uniform that Peyton Manning, Al Wilson, Johnny Majors and countless other greats wore over the years.

 

[TnVolz]

Where in heck did all this black stuff come from, anyway? UT's colors are Orange and White. Look back at footage from the '70s and '80s, before they started sticking black in it; that was the true way. I don't even like the idea of the black seats in the arena, even if it's cool-looking.

Get rid of the black, at least in the uniforms. And the turqoise in the Lady Vols stuff, too. That's even worse. :shakehead:

Man, if we get rid of all the black we wouldn't have a football or basketball team...

 

[The Ron Mexico]

Man, if we get rid of all the black we wouldn't have a football or basketball team...

Boom?

 

[brianlsanders]

Am I the only person that prefers the old style power T over the new version?

 

[illvol]

Here's the thing though. If you give an inch, people will take a mile. First it's just a one time thing, then it becomes a yearly thing, then a couple times a year, and before you know it, UT is just running out there wearing a round robin of bull**** just like Oregon does every week and just like that UT's one of a kind, distinct look has all but been destroyed. It obviously won't happen with just one time (the black jerseys a few years ago didn't do it) but over time it most certainly could happen. IMO it's just better to not even go down that road.

That's not true at all. Oregon is the exception and definitely not the rule. Has Notre Dame gone over the top? Alabama? Georgia? South Carolina? Or any other school aside from Oregon? Oregon is the only school that you're unable to predict week in and week out and even though they change that often, I'm betting that 99% of the people are able to tell who it is.
Nobody here, who's posts I've read, are suggesting anything even remotely close to that idea. I would love black with orange trim once. It would wreak of attitude. I'm a police officer and we aren't allowed to wear black gloves because it has appeared intimidating to some. I suggest a black uniform would be that x10 and that's not a bad thing in sports.

There are so many things that can bring a psychological edge in sports and the way a team looks is one of them. Granted, their play needs to back it up but for a big rival game at home where we want to get the fans that much more rowdy and riled up, a change to the uniform may just be able to bring that extra fire.

I'm sure some will argue that our play alone should be enough but that's just not so. Imagine a game that's a toss up. It could go either way and the home team comes out in a new uniform that takes everyone off guard. It's nice looking, but edgy and the players attitude matches it. The away team is on the field doing their routines when the home team comes out and the crowd has an extra attitude and "umph" in their roar because of it. The other team WOULD take notice of something like that and could give a bit of a psychological advantage at the start.

Who knows.

 

[bleedorange0037]

That's not true at all. Oregon is the exception and definitely not the rule. Has Notre Dame gone over the top? Alabama? Georgia? South Carolina? Or any other school aside from Oregon? Oregon is the only school that you're unable to predict week in and week out and even though they change that often, I'm betting that 99% of the people are able to tell who it is.
Nobody here, who's posts I've read, are suggesting anything even remotely close to that idea. I would love black with orange trim once. It would wreak of attitude. I'm a police officer and we aren't allowed to wear black gloves because it has appeared intimidating to some. I suggest a black uniform would be that x10 and that's not a bad thing in sports.

There are so many things that can bring a psychological edge in sports and the way a team looks is one of them. Granted, their play needs to back it up but for a big rival game at home where we want to get the fans that much more rowdy and riled up, a change to the uniform may just be able to bring that extra fire.

I'm sure some will argue that our play alone should be enough but that's just not so. Imagine a game that's a toss up. It could go either way and the home team comes out in a new uniform that takes everyone off guard. It's nice looking, but edgy and the players attitude matches it. The away team is on the field doing their routines when the home team comes out and the crowd has an extra attitude and "umph" in their roar because of it. The other team WOULD take notice of something like that and could give a bit of a psychological advantage at the start.

Who knows.

Notre Dame, yes.

Alabama, no.

Georgia, yes.

South Carolina, yes.

Other schools, yes.

All those uniforms represent a complete and total departure from the normal look for each of those schools. I agree that most people can immediately recognize Oregon. If you turn on the TV and see a team in some hideous combination of green, gold, black, grey, chrome, white or yellow, there's a good chance you're looking at Oregon.

 

[plentygood]

Change is fine, except when you end up looking like a Power Ranger!

 

[gemlek]

I think the Power T on the new helmet should have three stars...
duel meaning; tennessee state flag...average recruit

 

[VOLS_FAN15]

Wisconsin's looks like one of the wiggles

 

[illvol]

Notre Dame, yes.

Alabama, no.

Georgia, yes.

South Carolina, yes.

Other schools, yes.

All those uniforms represent a complete and total departure from the normal look for each of those schools. I agree that most people can immediately recognize Oregon. If you turn on the TV and see a team in some hideous combination of green, gold, black, grey, chrome, white or yellow, there's a good chance you're looking at Oregon.

Am I a fan of all of those? Heavens no! My argument wasn't saying that everyone that wears an alternate uniform looks good, to me. It was to the point that was made that if you give an inch they will take a mile and that eventually you won't recognize the team because their look is so obscure.

Many of these teams have sported an alternate uniform once or MAYBE twice a year. Nothing more. I don't believe that next year it will be 4 times and then the following year 8 times until the traditional look is gone. It's an alternate.

On a side note. I'm not sure who is in charge of uniform changes but some people who are for some of those schools should have been reprimanded. I'm all for adding some "pop" but some of those shock me that a coach signed off on them.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Gentlemen, from the verbiage employed in dialogue on this topic, it appears that some of you utilize the word “subtle,” with respect to stylistic change, very loosely. If we consult the dictionary, we find the following definitions:

“So slight as to be difficult to detect or describe.”
“Difficult to understand; abstruse.”
“Able to make fine distinctions” (subtle - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education)

Now look at the history of Tennessee football uniforms, once they emerged from the monochromatic uniformity of black jerseys where school colors were utilized as minor accents (early 1920s) to the present (University of Tennessee Volunteers Football Uniform and Team History | Heritage Uniforms and Jerseys). Tennessee has historically been the absolute epitome of subtle stylistic change. The kind of change that many contributors to this forum are advocating, however, is not subtle; it is radical. Furthermore, I interpret advocacy of that type of change as code for “replacement,” not as an occasional alternative.

On the other hand, use of orange helmets, with a white stripe and white power T, as part of our road uniforms would be entirely consistent with Tennessee’s history of subtle stylistic change (see my advocacy for this look on p. 724 of this thread and the mockups for it on p. 727). Particularly when worn with orange pants, this combination would maximize our visual statement of who we are.

On another note, I defer to a physician when it comes to his/her medical knowledge. I defer to an attorney when it comes to legal matters. I defer to a mechanic when it comes to car repairs. Stylistic analysis of material culture is something that anthropologists are far more knowledgeable about than our advocates of radical change. It is quite obvious that such proponents will not exercise the same judgement.

 

[illvol]

Huh?

 

[brianlsanders]

Gentlemen, from the verbiage employed in dialogue on this topic, it appears that some of you utilize the word “subtle,” with respect to stylistic change, very loosely. If we consult the dictionary, we find the following definitions:

“So slight as to be difficult to detect or describe.”
“Difficult to understand; abstruse.”
“Able to make fine distinctions” (subtle - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education)

Now look at the history of Tennessee football uniforms, once they emerged from the monochromatic uniformity of black jerseys where school colors were utilized as minor accents (early 1920s) to the present (University of Tennessee Volunteers Football Uniform and Team History | Heritage Uniforms and Jerseys). Tennessee has historically been the absolute epitome of subtle stylistic change. The kind of change that many contributors to this forum are advocating, however, is not subtle; it is radical. Furthermore, I interpret advocacy of that type of change as code for “replacement,” not as an occasional alternative.

On the other hand, use of orange helmets, with a white stripe and white power T, as part of our road uniforms would be entirely consistent with Tennessee’s history of subtle stylistic change (see my advocacy for this look on p. 724 of this thread and the mockups for it on p. 727). Particularly when worn with orange pants, this combination would maximize our visual statement of who we are.

On another note, I defer to a physician when it comes to his/her medical knowledge. I defer to an attorney when it comes to legal matters. I defer to a mechanic when it comes to car repairs. Stylistic analysis of material culture is something that anthropologists are far more knowledgeable about than our advocates of radical change. It is quite obvious that such proponents will not exercise the same judgement.

Rex, would you characterize the change between the old style power T and the current T (from my post #11155) as subtle change?

 

[Volosaurus rex]

Yes, Brian, I would characterize that as subtle stylistic change, well within the year-to-year variability that has historically characterized Tennessee uniforms. The old power T is taller, proportionately thinner and, on my monitor at least, more closely resembles burnt orange. If you want to quantify it on a 10-point scale, with 1 being so subtle that only the most discerning eye will notice, even with a side-by-side comparison, and 10 representing radical departure from our current color scheme to a black-on-black look where orange is relegated to an accent color, I would rate that degree of stylistic change as a 2, possibly a 3 at the very most.

 

[illvol]

"well within the year-to-year variability that has historically characterized Tennessee uniforms"

You mean historically as in since the university football team was born or since the period that they went to mainly orange and white which is the only period you care to recognize in its history?

 

[Volosaurus rex]

As I stated previously, "look at the history of Tennessee football uniforms, once they emerged from the monochromatic uniformity of black jerseys where school colors were utilized as minor accents (early 1920s) to the present (see University of Tennessee Volunteers Football Uniform and Team History | Heritage Uniforms and Jerseys). Tennessee has historically been the absolute epitome of subtle stylistic change."

If you want to place greater credence upon the period that preceded the roughly 90-year era in which orange and white has consistently been our color scheme, that is your prerogative. I don't choose to do so.

 

[Volosaurus rex]

The reason that this thread stirs such passion on both sides is that it represents the classic cultural debate, i.e. tradition vs. stylistic innovation. Framed more precisely, what rate of stylistic change is considered acceptable to be within the bounds of cultural norms?

 

[JDogInDaHouse]

Gentlemen, from the verbiage employed in dialogue on this topic, it appears that some of you utilize the word “subtle,” with respect to stylistic change, very loosely. If we consult the dictionary, we find the following definitions:

“So slight as to be difficult to detect or describe.”
“Difficult to understand; abstruse.”
“Able to make fine distinctions” (subtle - Dictionary definition and pronunciation - Yahoo! Education)

Now look at the history of Tennessee football uniforms, once they emerged from the monochromatic uniformity of black jerseys where school colors were utilized as minor accents (early 1920s) to the present (University of Tennessee Volunteers Football Uniform and Team History | Heritage Uniforms and Jerseys). Tennessee has historically been the absolute epitome of subtle stylistic change. The kind of change that many contributors to this forum are advocating, however, is not subtle; it is radical. Furthermore, I interpret advocacy of that type of change as code for “replacement,” not as an occasional alternative.

On the other hand, use of orange helmets, with a white stripe and white power T, as part of our road uniforms would be entirely consistent with Tennessee’s history of subtle stylistic change (see my advocacy for this look on p. 724 of this thread and the mockups for it on p. 727). Particularly when worn with orange pants, this combination would maximize our visual statement of who we are.

On another note, I defer to a physician when it comes to his/her medical knowledge. I defer to an attorney when it comes to legal matters. I defer to a mechanic when it comes to car repairs. Stylistic analysis of material culture is something that anthropologists are far more knowledgeable about than our advocates of radical change. It is quite obvious that such proponents will not exercise the same judgement.

I dont like you.

 

[VolsRule]

why not let players vote on a different uniform for 1-2 games each season, including 1 home game and 1 road game??

 

[ansleyr815]

Either you have a problem with reading comprehension or you haven’t followed this thread for very long. There are plenty of contributors to this forum who have, indeed, advocated black-on-black or black and white, with orange relegated to little more than an accent color. Personally, I interpret their advocacy as code for “replacement,” not as an occasional alternative. On a personal note, are you sure that you want to debate the role of style in material culture as an expression of group identity with an anthropologist who specializes in its analysis? That would not be a particularly bright decision.

I have a MBA... So I would gladly debate you in almost anything... But your pomposity would make any conversation or debate with you a miserable experience. Thanks for the lesson on cultural analysis though. I bet your conversation at the family dinner table is exhausting for everyone.

 

[bleedorange0037]

"well within the year-to-year variability that has historically characterized Tennessee uniforms"

You mean historically as in since the university football team was born or since the period that they went to mainly orange and white which is the only period you care to recognize in its history?

I think even the most ardent supporters of black uniforms would concede that black was never really a chosen color for our uniforms. It was simply worn at a time when all teams wore similar colors because the concept of wearing your school colors had not yet been introduced. Ever since UT made the choice to use it's school colors as it's uniform color scheme, black has been essentially non-existent aside from being used as a trim color on the away uniforms to make them more readable.

 

[bleedorange0037]

why not let players vote on a different uniform for 1-2 games each season, including 1 home game and 1 road game??

Because they have no business making decisions like that. To let them choose to wear different uniforms is essentially letting them say that wearing the same uniforms that all the Vols who came before isn't good enough for them. You come to UT and get to put on the orange that countless football greats have worn over the years, not wear some black and chrome monstrosity.

 

[VFL 24/7]

Tennessee would look good in black

 

[VolsRule]

I think even the most ardent supporters of black uniforms would concede that black was never really a chosen color for our uniforms.

Someone said earlier that black is not actually a color.