WACO

#26
#26
PEPPERJAX said:
I am in the middle of watching it right now & the series has kept my attention. I was 10 years old back in 1993 & did not fully understand the events that took place in Waco. That tragic event could have been handled so much better. I did a little bit of research besides watching the NF series and tend to feel sorry for Koresh and the Davidians. Some absolute carnage took place there. Koresh had some major problems & faults but damn!
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Koresh deserves no sympathy.
 
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#27
#27
Weaver and Koresh defied the almighty power of the federal overseers so they deserved what they got.
 
#29
#29
Rickyvol77 said:
Koresh was a crazy loon and i agree he shouldnt be glamorized, but the government was WAAAYYYYYY in the wrong.

I find Randy Weaver to be a much more sympathetic figure, and Ruby Ridge and Waco are perfect examples of federal agencies playing politics over actual Constitutional authority...
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I'm still in the camp that I agree that the government needed to step in, I just vehemently disagree with the method in which they did. They could have just picked up Koresh when he left the compound, got search warrants, etc.

If this was just a bunch of religious nutjobs playing with guns, then whatever. The abuses are what is concerning, especially with the children.
 
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#30
#30
rjd970 said:
I'm still in the camp that I agree that the government needed to step in, I just vehemently disagree with the method in which they did. They could have just picked up Koresh when he left the compound, got search warrants, etc.

If this was just a bunch of religious nutjobs playing with guns, then whatever. The abuses are what is concerning, especially with the children.
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agree but as we have seen the past 4-5 years, i was more concerned with the ATF/FBI's tendency to lie and make up evidence to further their political goals.

If you have ever studied up on Ruby Ridge and Waco in depth (they actually teach these disasters all across the law enforcement spectrum, including in the FBI) it was a case study in Murphy's Law.

- Bad communication and planning between agencies
- BS gun charges in order to try and trump up "big media" arrests to make the agency look good
- anti-gun, anti-religious types furthering a specific agenda
- misunderstanding or direct misuse of state vs federal laws
- no use of local law enforcement who were familiar with both subjects and could have easily affected arrest if need be

Their lies and mistakes and stubbornness gave rise to Timothy McVeigh, Sovereign Citizens, and other wackos because they truly were in the wrong and refused to admit it.
I am fairly confident that if local officers were used, neither incident would have occurred at all, especially Ruby Ridge
 
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#31
#31
Rickyvol77 said:
agree but as we have seen the past 4-5 years, i was more concerned with the ATF/FBI's tendency to lie and make up evidence to further their political goals.

If you have ever studied up on Ruby Ridge and Waco in depth (they actually teach these disasters all across the law enforcement spectrum, including in the FBI) it was a case study in Murphy's Law.

- Bad communication and planning between agencies
- BS gun charges in order to try and trump up "big media" arrests to make the agency look good
- anti-gun, anti-religious types furthering a specific agenda
- misunderstanding or direct misuse of state vs federal laws
- no use of local law enforcement who were familiar with both subjects and could have easily affected arrest if need be

Their lies and mistakes and stubbornness gave rise to Timothy McVeigh, Sovereign Citizens, and other wackos because they truly were in the wrong and refused to admit it.
I am fairly confident that if local officers were used, neither incident would have occurred at all, especially Ruby Ridge
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I was more concerned with the child abuse. But to each their own.

Ruby Ridge was a travesty all the way around.
 
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#33
#33
Rickyvol77 said:
agree but as we have seen the past 4-5 years, i was more concerned with the ATF/FBI's tendency to lie and make up evidence to further their political goals.

If you have ever studied up on Ruby Ridge and Waco in depth (they actually teach these disasters all across the law enforcement spectrum, including in the FBI) it was a case study in Murphy's Law.

- Bad communication and planning between agencies
- BS gun charges in order to try and trump up "big media" arrests to make the agency look good
- anti-gun, anti-religious types furthering a specific agenda
- misunderstanding or direct misuse of state vs federal laws
- no use of local law enforcement who were familiar with both subjects and could have easily affected arrest if need be

Their lies and mistakes and stubbornness gave rise to Timothy McVeigh, Sovereign Citizens, and other wackos because they truly were in the wrong and refused to admit it.
I am fairly confident that if local officers were used, neither incident would have occurred at all, especially Ruby Ridge
Click to expand...

? Were they BS or did the have illegal arms? (not that I agree with the laws, just asking if it was all legal)
 
#36
#36
n_huffhines said:
? Were they BS or did the have illegal arms? (not that I agree with the laws, just asking if it was all legal)
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Ruby Ridge happened because the ATF wanted to have an informant in an Aryan nation gun running gang.

Weaver was acquaintances with a guy who knew another guy who went to gun shows with those gang members.

The guy was arrested for drug charges and refused to wear a wire to infiltrate the gang, so lied and stated that Randy knew them better, and stated that Randy bought "illegal sawed off shotguns" from them (Proved to also be false). They put out warrants for Randy's arrest even though the local judge was going to dismiss the case and they the courts never contacted Randy about the correct court date (he had no phone/mail) because he lived off the grid. The other guy also claimed several things that didnt happen like Randy made threats to bomb the government, and would shoot anyone on his property at any time.

the ATF drummed up the charges in hope to corner Randy into infiltrating the gang, but never had a chance to talk to him so put out the warrants to bring him in. They then dressed in camouflage suits with ARs and hid out on his property in the woods before being discovered by Randy, his 13 yr old son, another guy, and their dog, and the ATF shot the dog, which prompted a firefight with the other guy (who shot the agent dead) and Randy's son who was killed by them.

Started the whole thing, and then made worse because the FBI then gave ridiculous orders of shoot on sight (which was not even close to protocol) and that led to them shooting and killing Randy's wife as she held their baby.
 
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#37
#37
n_huffhines said:
? Were they BS or did the have illegal arms? (not that I agree with the laws, just asking if it was all legal)
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gun charges were mostly BS, I believe there was ONE person at the compound who had improper paperwork for a rifle

Child abuse charges had been investigated several times by DCS, but no proof of any abuse was brought to L.E.

The ATF made up a story and put in news about possible meth labs there (which didnt exist) because they wanted to use the helicopter which by texas law was forbidden unless drugs were involved.

They could've waited until Koresh was in town (he literally went into town every 2 days) and arrested him, and then served a search warrant on the compound to look for what they suspected
 
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#39
#39
rjd970 said:
The last episode did. IMO the episodes leading up to that depicted him as pretty benign and caring.
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I think what they’ve done is shown him as charismatic. Lots of cult leaders and serial killers are like that. That’s how they get people to drop their guard and control them.
 
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#42
#42
Rickyvol77 said:
Koresh was a crazy loon and i agree he shouldnt be glamorized, but the government was WAAAYYYYYY in the wrong.

I find Randy Weaver to be a much more sympathetic figure, and Ruby Ridge and Waco are perfect examples of federal agencies playing politics over actual Constitutional authority...
Click to expand...

The guy who shot Weaver's son in the back and the one who shot his wife while holding her baby are special pieces of 💩. At least one of them got what he deserved.
 
#43
#43
Man my wife and I just binged this show, I was 8 when this happened so I was completely unfamiliar with it.

Hard to believe this happened in this country, my jaw has been on the floor since the final episode.

I saw the series was from 2018 on Paramount, is it new to Netflix?
 
#44
#44
zeppelin128 said:
I have it in my queue. Netflix makes some great documentary series.
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I'm through the third episode tonight. The series is painting Koresh et al as victims thus far.

On a side not The Netflix miniseries Hollywood and series Ozark are friggin' great.

On a side note, I had just had my wisdom teeth taken out at Fox Army Hospital at Redstone Arsenal. I was so hopped up on pain killers that I was watching them burn down the compound on TV thinking it was happening right outside our barracks, I still have those teeth in a plastic container in my desk drawer.
 
#45
#45
Septic said:
I'm through the third episode tonight. The series is painting Koresh et al as victims thus far.

On a side not The Netflix miniseries Hollywood and series Ozark are friggin' great.
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Koresh was not a victim. His followers were.
 
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