War in Ukraine

[luthervol]

No of course not but unless you’re ready to send your son (now your daughters) over there to fight you don’t have any right to advocate for us to send troops.

I certainly wouldn't want my son or daughters going over there.
And I've certainly not advocated for us to send troops.
I'm just curious about where different people draw the line that separates sending troops and not sending troops.
I would imagine I would be one of the last to send troops, but I'm not sure.
Also, I never wanted any of my kids in the military precisely because of the risk of being forced into a conflict in which we did not belong. I can think of nothing worse than asking kids to kill and be killed for bullsh!t political reasons.

 

[volbound1700]

Interesting, but the format of the EU was to dispel the old power conflicts, Check this out..

Invite Russia to join NATO

As we see within our own state to state conflicts, being a member doesn't necessarily dissipate dispute. And we have seen via Brexit what happens once one wants to leave the "union"

Actually, I agree with your post. If Russia joined NATO, it would solve this entire issue.

 

[volbound1700]

The problem in modern times is that Europe is leaning on the US for defense. Germany's military, for example- the "most powerful in Europe"- has had hilarious issues with underfunding, forcing them to do drills and war games with wooden guns and severely limiting their live fire exercises.

For our part, the US has been willing to oblige and put people all over the damn world. That mess needs to end.

Germany doesn't have the most powerful military in Europe, heck I doubt they are even in the top 5. They have the strongest economy in Europe and I think you are getting mixed up. Based on Army rankings, it probably looks something like this:

1. Russia
2. France
3. United Kingdom
4. Turkey
5. Poland
6. Germany
7. Italy

Definitely Russia and France are in the top 2 I know, not quite sure after that but I would go with UK and Turkey having big armies than Germany.

 

[luthervol]

The gene pool in Europe has been decimated throughout the past 2 centuries. With all of the wars, and people immigrating to the Americas they have been left with the weakest of males to propagate. In other words a continent of Luthers.

That's a pretty good one right there Hog.
Your genes can truly only be measured by what you pass on, so I'm evidently good on that one.

But maybe that's yet one more thing that requires that elusive 3rd dimension to process, is depth more of a European thing?

 

[Burhead]

Germany doesn't have the most powerful military in Europe, heck I doubt they are even in the top 5. They have the strongest economy in Europe and I think you are getting mixed up. Based on Army rankings, it probably looks something like this:

1. Russia
2. France
3. United Kingdom
4. Turkey
5. Poland
6. Germany
7. Italy

Definitely Russia and France are in the top 2 I know, not quite sure after that but I would go with UK and Turkey having big armies than Germany.

Ukraine actually has the third largest armed forces in Europe after Russia and France. Don’t quote me on this but I think they also have the largest tank force in Europe behind Russia as well.

If you’re talking about modern technology then I’d agree but Ukraine is probably the largest battle hardened army besides its enemy.

 

[Burhead]

Per RIA Novosti, Russia is evacuating its embassy in Ukraine.

 

[headhunter15]

 

[Weezer]

Biden needs to roll some tanks up on Canada. I say we take the Great White North as our own. Invade Canada, eh!

 

[swampfoxfan]

This is what happens when you have a mentally incapacitated, weak-minded fool in the Oval Office.

Good thing trump is gone.

 

[Vol Main]

Good thing trump is gone.

Trump was a terrible President, in almost every category. Guys like Vol423 always take sides with our enemy by knifing a Democratic President when there is a crisis that spurs decent Americans to be supportive. If Republicans get any worse they will be eating their young.

 

[ButchPlz]

Trump was a terrible President, in almost every category. Guys like Vol423 always take sides with our enemy by knifing a Democratic President when there is a crisis that spurs decent Americans to be supportive. If Republicans get any worse they will be eating their young.

Hilarious considering all Democrats are already busy sexually assaulting theirs.

 

[MontyPython]

It’s baffling Europe’s complete failure throughout history to mitigate issues effectively in their region. And to think, they look down their noses at us? They gotta take off the training wheels we put on them decades ago and handle this.

Asia/Europe is complicated. We got it easy here... Mexico to the South and Canucks to the North. Easy peasy.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Asia/Europe is complicated. We got it easy here... Mexico to the South and Canucks to the North. Easy peasy.

And yet, we waste our blessed situation by going out and looking for conflicts halfway around the globe.

 

[Vol737]

Asia/Europe is complicated. We got it easy here... Mexico to the South and Canucks to the North. Easy peasy.

It’s a fair point, but my larger point is they need to stop looking to us to do their heavy lifting and be more proactive in mitigating aggressor nations, especially considering how complicated the region can be.

 

[tvolsfan]

Which administration since the Cold War era would we want in charge right now?

Believe Russia and China aren’t worried about the current administration one bit.

I want an administration that isn’t childish and impulsive and is willing to constantly discuss strategy and security with our allies.

I guess some people may prefer a guy who still talks to Kim Jong-un for some reason.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

It’s a fair point, but my larger point is they need to stop looking to us to do their heavy lifting and be more proactive in mitigating aggressor nations, especially considering how complicated the region can be.

And we need to stop answering the call... or inserting ourselves into the situation. Really more of the latter.

 

[tvolsfan]

Ras = TVA

(Some are old enough on vn to get that)

Just realized I’ve been on this site for most of my life.

 

[tvolsfan]

We can with weapons. I would hope we all draw the line with troops

This seems highly likely. Also lean on Germany to go along with the necessary sanctions.

 

[tvolsfan]

Maybe during the Cold War the German military was the best in Europe but not anymore. The French, I would argue, have the best European military and are actually willing and able to use it. In fact with how small the British military is now, Paris should be our primary security partner in Europe but I'm not sure if we'll ever abandon the Special Relationship.

Germany’s military is a joke. France will never be our primary security partner with Macron trying to replace NATO. I expect this Ukraine conflict to bolster support for a European army in principle but highlight how dependent Europe is on NATO in practice.

 

[Vol737]

This seems highly likely. Also lean on Germany to go along with the necessary sanctions.

I’m not sure what we can rely on Germany for at this point. They blocked Estonia from sending weapons to Ukraine, basically shuttered their nuclear energy, shut down construction of a LNG import terminal where they would import LNG from the US and decided to rely on Russia, of all people, for their natural gas coming through a pipeline in which Russia controls the spigot. Now they’re completely subject to Russia.

 

[Vol737]

And we need to stop answering the call... or inserting ourselves into the situation. Really more of the latter.

I don’t mind selling military hardware, but I’m tired of carrying the water and paying the bill.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I’m not sure what we can rely on Germany for at this point. They blocked Estonia from sending weapons to Ukraine, basically shuttered their nuclear energy, shut down construction of a LNG import terminal where they would import LNG from the US and decided to rely on Russia, of all people, for their natural gas coming through a pipeline in which Russia controls the spigot. Now they’re completely subject to Russia.

Pipeline is a source of more reliable and cheaper energy than LNG being shipped in. You do realize this, right?

 

[Vol737]

Pipeline is a source of more reliable and cheaper energy than LNG being shipped in. You do realize this, right?

Sure, but do you really want to subject yourself to Russia’s political ambitions allowing them to use the spigot as a weapon? The nuclear component is what escapes me more than the other. Makes no sense.

 

[Vol737]

I want an administration that isn’t childish and impulsive and is willing to constantly discuss strategy and security with our allies.

I guess some people may prefer a guy who still talks to Kim Jong-un for some reason.

Wait, in one breath you say talk/discuss. In the next you say don’t talk/discuss. Which is it? I don’t think talking to NK was an issue and like many administrations who tried to negotiate with NK before Trump, they showed they couldn’t keep a deal. Trump wasn’t the first.

 

[allvol123]

Per RIA Novosti, Russia is evacuating its embassy in Ukraine.

Dang @Rasputin_Vol the US propaganda is so good the Russians are buying it.