War in Ukraine

[USF grad in TN]

Calm down. This is money well spent, for a change.

• Austria - AT - AUT - 43
• Belgium - BE - BEL - 32
• Bulgaria - BG - BGR - 359
• Croatia - HR - HRV - 385
• Cyprus - CY - CYP - 357
• Czech Republic - CZ - CZE - 420
• Denmark - DK - DNK - 45
• Estonia - EE - EST - 372
• Finland - FI - FIN - 358
• France - FR - FRA - 33
• Germany - DE - DEU - 49
• Greece - GR - GRC - 30
• Hungary - HU - HUN - 36
• Ireland - IE - IRL - 353
• Italy - IT - ITA - 39
• Latvia - LV - LVA - 371
• Lithuania - LT - LTU - 370
• Luxembourg - LU - LUX - 352
• Malta - MT - MLT - 356
• Netherlands - NL - NLD - 31
• Poland - PL - POL - 48
• Portugal - PT - PRT - 351
• Romania - RO - ROU - 40
• Slovakia - SK - SVK - 421
• Slovenia - SI - SVN - 386
• Spain - ES - ESP - 34
• Sweden - SE - SWE - 46

Estonia and Latvia stepping up. I guess they don't want to be next.
Germany slacking.

 

[FLVOL_79]

• Austria - AT - AUT - 43
• Belgium - BE - BEL - 32
• Bulgaria - BG - BGR - 359
• Croatia - HR - HRV - 385
• Cyprus - CY - CYP - 357
• Czech Republic - CZ - CZE - 420
• Denmark - DK - DNK - 45
• Estonia - EE - EST - 372
• Finland - FI - FIN - 358
• France - FR - FRA - 33
• Germany - DE - DEU - 49
• Greece - GR - GRC - 30
• Hungary - HU - HUN - 36
• Ireland - IE - IRL - 353
• Italy - IT - ITA - 39
• Latvia - LV - LVA - 371
• Lithuania - LT - LTU - 370
• Luxembourg - LU - LUX - 352
• Malta - MT - MLT - 356
• Netherlands - NL - NLD - 31
• Poland - PL - POL - 48
• Portugal - PT - PRT - 351
• Romania - RO - ROU - 40
• Slovakia - SK - SVK - 421
• Slovenia - SI - SVN - 386
• Spain - ES - ESP - 34
• Sweden - SE - SWE - 46

Estonia and Latvia stepping up. I guess they don't want to be next.
Germany slacking.

2 countries that the US has been training for several years.

 

[DonjoVol]

I thought I heard another $3B has been committed. There concern is funding another country's war will leave a long term economic stain on this country. There should be a coalition including European countries that are investing more money to this cause. It appears most nations are gladly allowing the US to be there suckers. This adminstration and congress thinks money grows on trees.

Remember. The 40 billion we have them was going to bring Russia to its knees. Wonder what the extra 15 billion is going to do according to these Ukrainian trolls and neoliberal propagandists here on this thread.

 

[LouderVol]

• Austria - AT - AUT - 43
• Belgium - BE - BEL - 32
• Bulgaria - BG - BGR - 359
• Croatia - HR - HRV - 385
• Cyprus - CY - CYP - 357
• Czech Republic - CZ - CZE - 420
• Denmark - DK - DNK - 45
• Estonia - EE - EST - 372
• Finland - FI - FIN - 358
• France - FR - FRA - 33
• Germany - DE - DEU - 49
• Greece - GR - GRC - 30
• Hungary - HU - HUN - 36
• Ireland - IE - IRL - 353
• Italy - IT - ITA - 39
• Latvia - LV - LVA - 371
• Lithuania - LT - LTU - 370
• Luxembourg - LU - LUX - 352
• Malta - MT - MLT - 356
• Netherlands - NL - NLD - 31
• Poland - PL - POL - 48
• Portugal - PT - PRT - 351
• Romania - RO - ROU - 40
• Slovakia - SK - SVK - 421
• Slovenia - SI - SVN - 386
• Spain - ES - ESP - 34
• Sweden - SE - SWE - 46

Estonia and Latvia stepping up. I guess they don't want to be next.
Germany slacking.

Yeah they learned from the last time what Russia expanding west into Europe means for them.

 

[volgr]

Remember. The 40 billion we have them was going to bring Russia to its knees. Wonder what the extra 15 billion is going to do according to these Ukrainian trolls and neoliberal propagandists here on this thread.

If it helps further the destruction of the Western Death Cult regime, which it does, I'm all for it. EU has depleted itself so much, Russia could likely invade it next Spring and hold large parts of it, but why do EU the favor?

 

[tvolsfan]

If it helps further the destruction of the Western Death Cult regime, which it does, I'm all for it. EU has depleted itself so much, Russia could likely invade it next Spring and hold large parts of it, but why do EU the favor?

Try a little harder next time.

 

[volgr]

Took a break from bombing apartments to bomb a passenger train.

Russia's claim is much more believable...

An Iskander missile has hit a military train at Chaplino railway station in Dnepropetrovsk Region, destroying over 200 AFU servicemen reserve and 10 units of military equipment on their way to Donbass war zone.

 

[volgr]

Does anyone think the last 6 months have made the West (or Western Death Cult) look weaker or stronger to the outside world?

 

[LouderVol]

Russia's claim is much more believable...

Lol. That looks like a military train to you? That's clearly a passenger train and you think it was somehow carrying 10 units -very vague unit of measurement btw- worth of equipment?

You will buy whatever bs they put out there without thinking at all.

The difference in the numbers are telling too. Russia claims to have killed 200, but the people on the ground are saying 15. It's clear who is trying to upsell the event.

 

[LouderVol]

Does anyone think the last 6 months have made the West (or Western Death Cult) look weaker or stronger to the outside world?

Clearly it helped unify them. Clearly it caused them all to at least reassess their own military spending.

There is nothing to suggest it has actually made them weaker, and I would argue with a common enemy they will appear stronger than they otherwise would have.

 

[volgr]

Reasons I believe your ratios are off, and I am not saying Monty's are right, I just take the middle ground because I dont trust either sides reporting:

1. Russia supposedly has air dominance but we rarely if ever see air strikes. This says to me things arent going well enough for them to let their air loiter which would help dominate a battlefield and reduce casualties.
2. Depending on which argument you are making they are using conscripts to save their elites for a later fight, or we are seeing the elite troops rip through Ukraine. That always reads as propaganda. Russia clearly has a mix deployed. But apparently not enough of the elite to make quick gains to actually encircle the enemy. The lack fo results plus the day 1 air drops on various air fields says that many elite units have been hurt bad where you dont see mass deployments of them anymore.
3. The use of t62s. I mean come on. You really think they dusted these guys off because they have only suffered light losses?
4. Russia was counting on Ukraine not fighting back and having tons of local help. That has quiet clearly not worked in their favor.
5. The war has dragged out. As the aggressor you never want the war to drag out. Never. You dont want to give up momentum and let the enemy recover to fight again. You press press press. The fact that you call this trench warfare should raise a bunch of flags. That is far far more bloody than more modern fights. And it is for both sides, winner and loser. Yet alone what it does to the civilian population, there are still parts of France abandoned due to the damage from WWI.

1. I see them. Maybe it depends on what sources you are looking at. Much like point 2 though, they only use them when they really need them. There is no reason to risk equipment/pilots when other measures are working so well.
2. Quick gains through the Donbas would come at a huge cost to Russia. Ukraine had 8 years to prepare for this, not to mention they have been engaged in light fighting with local militias during that time. This wasn't easy ground to take. Russia decided to go slow, minimizing casualties, use all their advantages and grind down Ukraine. It has been quite impressive.
3. The older stuff is being used to secure areas in the rear, long captured.
4. True. This is why Russia suffered its heaviest losses early on. This was a HUGE miscalculation by Russia.
5. I partially agree. Like I said in point 2, had Russia tried to make big advances it likely would have come at the cost of very high casualties. Now, as you say, with the war dragging on it may end up being a wash in the end. With it dragging on however, it is advancing other interests, that being demilitarization of not only Ukraine but NATO in general. I think Russians are gaining some confidence in this as well. They are basically fighting a NATO proxy war and winning it quite handily and doing so without mobilization or declaring war. Meanwhile, Ukraine (and to a lesser extent NATO) is decimated and demoralized.

 

[volgr]

Lol. That looks like a military train to you? That's clearly a passenger train and you think it was somehow carrying 10 units -very vague unit of measurement btw- worth of equipment?

You will buy whatever bs they put out there without thinking at all.

The difference in the numbers are telling too. Russia claims to have killed 200, but the people on the ground are saying 15. It's clear who is trying to upsell the event.

It was a passenger train being used for military purposes. Ukraine doesn't have a good way to easily and safely move troops in and out of these areas. At one point and probably still are, they were sending their troops in civilian cars/vans in the middle of the night.

 

[volgr]

There is nothing to suggest it has actually made them weaker

The West imposed basically the nuclear weapon of sanctions on Russia and yet Russia is not only standing but fighting back and finding new trading partners. The West did this at a HUGE cost to their own economies. Some EU Countries are already rationing energy and winter is right around the corner. There is no win in this for the West, except maybe the MIC.

 

[hog88]

Does anyone think the last 6 months have made the West (or Western Death Cult) look weaker or stronger to the outside world?

Much weaker. But Russia looks like incompetent boobs.

 

[LouderVol]

1. I see them. Maybe it depends on what sources you are looking at. Much like point 2 though, they only use them when they really need them. There is no reason to risk equipment/pilots when other measures are working so well.
2. Quick gains through the Donbas would come at a huge cost to Russia. Ukraine had 8 years to prepare for this, not to mention they have been engaged in light fighting with local militias during that time. This wasn't easy ground to take. Russia decided to go slow, minimizing casualties, use all their advantages and grind down Ukraine. It has been quite impressive.
3. The older stuff is being used to secure areas in the rear, long captured.
4. True. This is why Russia suffered its heaviest losses early on. This was a HUGE miscalculation by Russia.
5. I partially agree. Like I said in point 2, had Russia tried to make big advances it likely would have come at the cost of very high casualties. Now, as you say, with the war dragging on it may end up being a wash in the end. With it dragging on however, it is advancing other interests, that being demilitarization of not only Ukraine but NATO in general. I think Russians are gaining some confidence in this as well. They are basically fighting a NATO proxy war and winning it quite handily and doing so without mobilization or declaring war. Meanwhile, Ukraine (and to a lesser extent NATO) is decimated and demoralized.

1. What's the risk if they have air dominance?
2. This is laughable and goes against all military thinking ever. Even before the blitz and armored warfare. No one drug a war out. You always try to win as quick as possible. You only turn to a war of attrition if you cant win quickly. It is never the preffered method, never. Its bloody and destructive. And it's weird you push the proxy war angle here, because Russia was the aggressor. You make it sound like Russia wanted a long drawn out fight from the start of their eastern offensives to drain the west.
3. We have seen them used, and seen losses. Either they are being used on the front lines or the rear is not nearly as secure as you think it is.
4. Considering Russia hasnt published any updated official losses counts since like April, I can see why you believe this. But it's more foolishness. Slow warfare on a large front, instead of concentrated attack along lines of strength or enemy weakeness, is an invitation for losses.
5. I have no idea why you keep bringing up that they havent declared war yet as a good point. They are already using antiquated equipment, behind the lines if you wish. They are already expanding entrance to the military, and bragging about it. What further/new assets would Russia suddenly unveil with a declaration of war? They already are calling up allies to fight, so it's not like that would be new either. It's like the US with all our involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan, heck add Vietnam. What would we have added by declaring war? What would Russia actually add that they arent already doing?

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[happy-go_vol]

Terrifying moment flesh-melting ‘thermite bombs’ rain down on Ukrainian town

The use of thermite as an incendiary weapon is nowadays considered a war crime.
Its use was banned by the third protocol of the 1980 UN Convention on Conventional Weapons in Geneva.

You think putin really cares?

 

[Velo Vol]

All part of the plan.

 

[ButchPlz]

Is data explicitly from a group actively engaged on one side of the conflict reliable and unbiased?

 

[volgr]

 

[Gandalf]

Much weaker. But Russia looks like incompetent boobs.

But it only looks like that because of the info we are being fed. I would agree that based on what I have seen, it definitely does not look like this was a well orchestrated invasion in any way or that things are going all that well for Russia. That said, I understand my own biases and am trying to look beyond them in what information is being fed to us by a media who is part of the proxy campaign our military is waging.

Whether in the last century = The first casualty when war comes is truth - Hiram W Johnson
or ancient times = In war, truth is the first casualty. - Aeschylus

or even a quote from a popular game Call of Duty:
“This is for the record. History is written by the victor. History is filled with liars. If he lives, and we die, his truth becomes written - and ours is lost. Shepherd will be a hero, 'cause all you need to change the world is one good lie and a river of blood. He's about to complete the greatest trick a liar ever played on history. His truth will be the truth. But only if he lives, and we die.” ― Captain John Price

Trouble is that all humans tend to think it is the "other guys" who are telling the lies, so that we do not see it from our own.

Point is - who knows what the upshot of all this will be in the end? Russia may be better or worse off after all this but Ukraine will most certainly not "win" much of anything, irrespective of the outcome.

 

[volkyries]

Those photos aren't much better. Clearly there are two trains in close portion of the shot with the one in the back being the one that appears to have been hit and the one in the front looks functional. It is hard to tell if the trucks/equipment are actually on the rear train in the far away shots or if they are on the passing front train. Seems like if they were on the bombed out one that there would be better photos of it to prove the point instead of just the ones we have which to me looks like they are trying to confuse two different trains to fit their narrative.

ETA: the two trains are even clearer in the video that same guy posted if you got to the actual twitter account.

 

[NorthDallas40]

More fake news from you Larry. As someone else already pointed out it’s two separate trains. Here is a screen shot from the short video clip in the Twitter feed showing a flat car in front of the burned out passenger train in the back ground. Womp womp. You need to chastise your handlers for not giving you better propaganda to shill.

 

[LouderVol]

The West imposed basically the nuclear weapon of sanctions on Russia and yet Russia is not only standing but fighting back and finding new trading partners. The West did this at a HUGE cost to their own economies. Some EU Countries are already rationing energy and winter is right around the corner. There is no win in this for the West, except maybe the MIC.

The west cant find other trade partners? The energy will bite them now, and we will see how serious they are about all their green talk, but I dont see it as a new weakness.

Europe has always been energy dependent on others. If war broke out between the EU and Russia it would be the exact same issue. This forces them to deal with their energy issues while at peace, instead of being at war and having to make the change.

It could fracture the EU a bit. The big countries will handle the loss better, or at least have more options in how to address, but the small guys will get squeezed. But as I said I dont see it as a new weakness or something that was exposed.

 

[LouderVol]

So now it's a civilian train that also had the military on it. Russia really going out of their way to avoid civilians with this one.