War in Ukraine

#41,251
#41,251
Rasputin_Vol said:
You mean the same powers that supported The Shah of Iran, Diem in Vietnam, Pinochet in Chile and The Khmer Rouge? Maybe the Allied Powers thought Stalin could still be useful to them.
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The Khmer Rouge is a stretch and Diem in Vietnam wasn't the villain he is made out to be by the West post Vietnam. He became their scapegoat for war. His successors were certainly inept. The problem with the Vietnam War is Ho Chi Minh wasn't a hardline Communist nut job like Stalin or Mao and the South didn't want to be independent no matter who was controlling it. The simply fought the wrong war in Southeast Asia in the wrong country. Had we not been engaged in the Vietnam War we more than likely would have fought one in Cambodia. At the time of Cambodian genocide, there was no support for war anywhere. I can't say I blame the US for aiding the monarchy but it was destined for failure just like the war in Vietnam. Thousands of South Vietnamese soldiers died fighting the Communist North so you do have to respect their commitment to it no matter how misguided and destined for failure it may have been.
 
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#41,252
volgr said:
Hopefully, he finds the same fate as Gaddafi.
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I didn't find this out until a few days ago, but apparently Hillary was watching footage from a drone as Ghaddafi was being attacked and brutalized. For her to cackle and giggle after watching that nonsense makes her the most evil b*tch on the planet.
 
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#41,254
DonjoVol said:
Some of these posters have been all giddy about Russians dying and how we aren't using our troops to kill them but using Ukrainians. They have been open about their feelings on this too.
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I have seen a handful on here giddy about Ukraine soldiers dying. My personal opinion has always been that Russia is exercising centuries old hatred for Kiev. The US has no role in this and if we are going to insist on being involved I would rather it be weapons than soldiers. Considering Russia's treatment of Ukraine in the past, I can't say I blame them for fighting and dying. The excuses Russia has thrown out for invading are as ever changing as the made up charges against Trump.
 
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#41,255
#41,255
Rasputin_Vol said:
I didn't find this out until a few days ago, but apparently Hillary was watching footage from a drone as Ghaddafi was being attacked and brutalized. For her to cackle and giggle after watching that nonsense makes her the most evil b*tch on the planet.
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Since she was supply all sides with weapons down there and than accepting bribes through Clinton Foundation of north of $80m from Saudi Arabia, she certainly isn't a Saint.

Sounds familar? Europe is paying Russia, paying Ukraine, and supplying Ukraine probably with Russian goods.
 
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#41,257
landscapingvol said:
The Khmer Rouge is a stretch and Diem in Vietnam wasn't the villain he is made out to be by the West post Vietnam. He became their scapegoat for war. His successors were certainly inept. The problem with the Vietnam War is Ho Chi Minh wasn't a hardline Communist nut job like Stalin or Mao and the South didn't want to be independent no matter who was controlling it. The simply fought the wrong war in Southeast Asia in the wrong country. Had we not been engaged in the Vietnam War we more than likely would have fought one in Cambodia. At the time of Cambodian genocide, there was no support for war anywhere. I can't say I blame the US for aiding the monarchy but it was destined for failure just like the war in Vietnam. Thousands of South Vietnamese soldiers died fighting the Communist North so you do have to respect their commitment to it no matter how misguided and destined for failure it may have been.
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The "reasonable" Khmer Rouge...

 
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#41,258
DonjoVol said:
I'll be honest. I do feel bad for the people of Ukraine as they are being used once again. Plus if you study the history of that region just going back to the 19th century they suffered many famines. Particularly in the area of Galicia.

I also noticed an old map of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. I think it was called the Polish- Lithuania Commonwealth for a bit as well. Anyways much of Ukraine was part of the Grand Duchy except for much of the territory in Eastern Ukraine and most of the territory along the Black Sea. I think at one time it had the largest area of any region in Europe.
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Might want to look into those "famines". Nost werent food production issues, but food distribution issues by their out of state masters.
 
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#41,260
landscapingvol said:
I can just see the news headlines: "US arms Nazis and pushes back allied Red Army"
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Sure there would have been headlines like that but we were mobilized and we could have done it in under a year.

FDR was enamored with Stalin, rolled over for him at Tehran/Yalta conceding to almost every one of his demands. At Potsdam Truman and Attlee were bumbling, mumbling neophytes, Stalin pulled their britches down and abused them.
 
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#41,262
landscapingvol said:
The Khmer Rouge is a stretch and Diem in Vietnam wasn't the villain he is made out to be by the West post Vietnam. He became their scapegoat for war. His successors were certainly inept. The problem with the Vietnam War is Ho Chi Minh wasn't a hardline Communist nut job like Stalin or Mao and the South didn't want to be independent no matter who was controlling it. The simply fought the wrong war in Southeast Asia in the wrong country. Had we not been engaged in the Vietnam War we more than likely would have fought one in Cambodia. At the time of Cambodian genocide, there was no support for war anywhere. I can't say I blame the US for aiding the monarchy but it was destined for failure just like the war in Vietnam. Thousands of South Vietnamese soldiers died fighting the Communist North so you do have to respect their commitment to it no matter how misguided and destined for failure it may have been.
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There was no reason for us to be in SE Asia anymore than there is a reason for us to be anywhere else outside of this hemisphere.
 
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#41,263
landscapingvol said:
No claiming they were reasonable, just our role in empowering them
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Did you hear what she said? She supported the Khmer Rouge playing a future role in Cambodia as long as there were assurances that Pol Pot would not return to power. That would be similar to saying that "reasonable" Nazis could play a role in German politics as long as Hitler wasn't around. The people assuring her that there were "reasonable" Khmer Rouge obviously was British intelligence and CIA.
 
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#41,267
Rasputin_Vol said:
I didn't find this out until a few days ago, but apparently Hillary was watching footage from a drone as Ghaddafi was being attacked and brutalized. For her to cackle and giggle after watching that nonsense makes her the most evil b*tch on the planet.
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You're a delicate fellow.
 
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#41,271
#41,271
Rasputin_Vol said:
There was no reason for us to be in SE Asia anymore than there is a reason for us to be anywhere else outside of this hemisphere.
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No reason to be In Asia yet earlier you said we should’ve always sold the Japanese army resources to help them with their invasions
 
#41,273
#41,273
Rasputin_Vol said:
Vietnam, their neighbor, ended up running them to the hills. That was the right and proper outcome. Let these countries take care of their own regional fires and we can worry about our own affairs over here.
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Some people are into the whole send people to die for no reason, rinse and repeat strategy. You can't keep the defense contractor full of cash without the rinse and repeat strategy.
 
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LSU-SIU said:
That's not what I really mean. There are lots of crocodile tears out here for some reason. At the end of the day, nobody really cares about any of these people. I see nothing wrong with the discussion but people are pretty invested for some reason and its not because they care about anyone dying there.

I think it the Russians strategy makes sense post early 90s, obviously others (United States) thought it made sense as well... which is why you have all this Ukraine action by the west. Now, you personally can say it doesn't make sense, but that is irrelevant at this point. It makes sense to all the parties, and the Russians are not going to listen to you. So, at this point its just about how it plays out. For the most part there are limited options. Most likely they keep fighting for a few years, and nothing will be left.

Let'em fight, none of our business. Fine to discuss but the fake crocodile tears from here is kind of funny. Nobody cares about the people dying, the United States is like... great!!! The United States doesn't really care if its all blown up.
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I havent seen any crocodile tears. It looks like watching Bama play ND. We may not like either team, and the ending may not be in question, but most TN fans are going to pull for ND over Bama in that game. Doesnt mean we are Irish fans. Just means given the choice while discussing its ND we tend to favor. I dont think anyone would be broke up if a giant asteroid struck and wiped them both out.

But while you werent here the other three Russophiles were running their mouths about how Russia was sparing lives and avoiding damage on purpose. It was all their strategy. Now you came in talking utter destruction and the other three fall in lock step and never question you once because of your pro Russian stances. It was amazing to watch.

Not sure what strategy you are talking about of Russia. The west is clearly not copying Russias trench warfare strategy. If you means Russias imperliast strategy of land grabbing, the west is reacting because Russia is the aggressor grabbing up lost land from about 30 years ago. Kinda like a certain WWI losing nation going into WW2. Appeasement doesnt work. Would you rather us not spend the 50/75/100 billion now and keep the problem isolated? Or would you rather us do nothing now, and spend trillions and thousands of lives after the next Pearl Harbor?
 
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#41,275
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LouderVol said:
But while you werent here the other three Russophiles were running their mouths about how Russia was sparing lives and avoiding damage on purpose. It was all their strategy. Now you came in talking utter destruction and the other three fall in lock step and never question you once because of your pro Russian stances. It was amazing to watch.
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Putin has been much kinder than I would be, maybe there is a reason for that. You can say anything about the Russian capability you want, but Kiev is still standing because they have allowed it. That doesn't mean they could take it on the ground and hold it. At the end of the day, unless something out of the blue comes up.... it looks like the whole country will eventually be turned into a parking lot. The strategy makes sense since the 90s, the time to take Ukraine to the woodshed was running out. Not sure why any of this is a surprise.

The real war is the economic European war, it doesn't look good for them but we'll see how the winter and the next six months play out.

If the Ukraine and Europe are stupid enough to do the bidding for the United States, well, maybe its time for their genes to be wiped from the available pool. Unless some adults take back over in Europe, it could go on for some time.

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