War in Ukraine

#41,276
#41,276
LouderVol said:
But while you werent here the other three Russophiles were running their mouths about how Russia was sparing lives and avoiding damage on purpose. It was all their strategy. Now you came in talking utter destruction and the other three fall in lock step and never question you once because of your pro Russian stances. It was amazing to watch.
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Putin has been much kinder than I would be, maybe there is a reason for that. You can say anything about the Russian capability you want, but Kiev is still standing because they have allowed. That doesn't mean they could take it on the ground and hold it. At the end of the day, unless something out of the blue comes up.... it looks like the whole country will eventually be turned into a parking lot. The strategy makes sense since the 90s, the time to take Ukraine to the woodshed was running out. Not sure why any of this is a surprise.

The real war is the economic European war, it doesn't look good for them but we'll see how the winter and the next six months play out.

If the Ukraine and Europe are stupid enough to do the bidding for the United States, well, maybe its time for their genes to be wiped from the available pool. Unless some adults take back over in Europe, it could go on for some time.

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#41,281
#41,281
LSU-SIU said:
Putin has been much kinder than I would be, maybe there is a reason for that. You can say anything about the Russian capability you want, but Kiev is still standing because they have allowed it. That doesn't mean they could take it on the ground and hold it. At the end of the day, unless something out of the blue comes up.... it looks like the whole country will eventually be turned into a parking lot. The strategy makes sense since the 90s, the time to take Ukraine to the woodshed was running out. Not sure why any of this is a surprise.

The real war is the economic European war, it doesn't look good for them but we'll see how the winter and the next six months play out.

If the Ukraine and Europe are stupid enough to do the bidding for the United States, well, maybe its time for their genes to be wiped from the available pool. Unless some adults take back over in Europe, it could go on for some time.

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The real war, in your words, didnt start until AFTER the west sanctioned Russia. If Russia was really planning the downfall of Europe they had no reason to wait for the west to sanction them. They could have cut off the oil any time they want. Would never have needed to invade Ukraine either if Ukraine didnt matter. I dont see anyone shedding tears for Russias choice of aggression where it was apparently never needed.
 
#41,283
#41,283
LouderVol said:
I havent seen any crocodile tears. It looks like watching Bama play ND. We may not like either team, and the ending may not be in question, but most TN fans are going to pull for ND over Bama in that game. Doesnt mean we are Irish fans. Just means given the choice while discussing its ND we tend to favor. I dont think anyone would be broke up if a giant asteroid struck and wiped them both out.
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TN fans need to worry about TN and don't worry about other teams.
 
#41,284
#41,284
LouderVol said:
The real war, in your words, didnt start until AFTER the west sanctioned Russia. If Russia was really planning the downfall of Europe they had no reason to wait for the west to sanction them. They could have cut off the oil any time they want. Would never have needed to invade Ukraine either if Ukraine didnt matter. I dont see anyone shedding tears for Russias choice of aggression where it was apparently never needed.
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The objective(s) have changed since the start of the war, of course Russia isn't making that one public (economic war but Germany/Europe started that).

I dont see anyone shedding tears for Russias choice of aggression where it was apparently never needed.
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I don't feel sorry for them, but understand the strategy. I feel like they gave notice (for a decade+) as to the outcome if people didn't work in good faith. All of this could have been avoided, I don't feel like they were being unreasonable. (opinion) Either way, the outcome looks more or less like a complete destruction of the Ukraine. The economic war with Europe is at the early stage.

Let'em fight but the outcome to Ukraine is not good.

None of this is very complex.
 
#41,287
#41,287
LouderVol said:
But while you werent here the other three Russophiles were running their mouths about how Russia was sparing lives and avoiding damage on purpose. It was all their strategy. Now you came in talking utter destruction and the other three fall in lock step and never question you once because of your pro Russian stances. It was amazing to watch.
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Russia is doing a lot to spare lives, but that doesn't mean that blood will not be spilled. You guys are used to United States in some 3rd World sh^thole country bombing the living crap out of them. The very first thing the US would have done is knockout all public infrastructure and then started raining down bombs. Meanwhile, the Russians are clearly not using that strategy because they want to preserve as best as they can the people and the infrastructure. Kharkov, Zaporozhe and Nikolaiv are under fire yet they still have public services... Kyiv and Lviv are pristine. The bulk of the fighting is going on in Donbas where the Russians are going after troops, not necessarily infrastructure.

LouderVol said:
Not sure what strategy you are talking about of Russia. The west is clearly not copying Russias trench warfare strategy. If you means Russias imperliast strategy of land grabbing, the west is reacting because Russia is the aggressor grabbing up lost land from about 30 years ago. Kinda like a certain WWI losing nation going into WW2. Appeasement doesnt work. Would you rather us not spend the 50/75/100 billion now and keep the problem isolated? Or would you rather us do nothing now, and spend trillions and thousands of lives after the next Pearl Harbor?
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You guys take one example out of history involving Neville Chamberlain and then use that as an excuse to not engage in diplomacy. In several other situations before and since that don't involve the United States and Britain, diplomacy does indeed work.
Also, Isn't diplomacy far cheaper than $50/75/100 billion? It's like you guys only have one tool in the toolbox... or maybe two. Sanctions and weapons.
 
#41,291
#41,291
LSU-SIU said:
The objective(s) have changed since the start of the war, of course Russia isn't making that one public (economic war but Germany/Europe started that).



I don't feel sorry for them, but understand the strategy. I feel like they gave notice (for a decade+) as to the outcome if people didn't work in good faith. All of this could have been avoided, I don't feel like they were being unreasonable. (opinion) Either way, the outcome looks more or less like a complete destruction of the Ukraine. The economic war with Europe is at the early stage.

Let'em fight but the outcome to Ukraine is not good.

None of this is very complex.
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Your good faith was always just Ukraine giving up land. That was always a known, and treaty verified, non starter for Ukraine.
 
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#41,292
#41,292
NorthDallas40 said:
It certainly looks like they haven’t moved forward in about three months. Man these three day wars take forever Moe.
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A decade and a half in Vietnam, 20 years in Afghanistan, and 2 invasions in the last 30 years in Iraq against rice farmers, goatherders and cave dwellers.

You might want to shut your mouth about this 3 day nonsense.
 
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#41,293
#41,293
LouderVol said:
Your good faith was always just Ukraine giving up land. That was always a known, and treaty verified, non starter for Ukraine.
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Obviously, I disagree but that has been discussed to death. Putin doesn't really care and the Ukraine will continue to be destroyed. They will have time to reflect on the the decisions made from the parking lot.

In the meantime, onto Europe. (I have no idea how this turns out, right now it looks pretty disastrous on many levels if those energy prices continue to go up... I would think they ease at some point.)

I would say the globe is getting inch by inch close to global reset. The Great Unwind.
 
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#41,294
#41,294
Rasputin_Vol said:
A decade and a half in Vietnam, 20 years in Afghanistan, and 2 invasions in the last 30 years in Iraq against rice farmers, goatherders and cave dwellers.

You might want to shut your mouth about this 3 day nonsense.
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Oh I’m gonna go on and on about this 3 day nonsense and rub your Soviet as kissing nose in it. It was supposed to be over quickly. Russia was supposed to steam roll poor Ukraine. Whoopsie!
 
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#41,295
#41,295
Escobar: Ukraine - Somewhere Between Afghanization And Syrianization

So the battle will go on, destroying what's left of Ukraine, just as it destroyed much of Syria. The difference is that economically, much more than in Syria, what's left of Ukraine will plunge into a black void. Only territory under Russian control will be rebuilt, and that includes, significantly, the bulk of Ukraine's industrial infrastructure.
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Basically, what I said the other day, plus the other article I posted. They use similar words as I do. "black void", I said I think black hole. Money and arms will go into there and just be lost or laundered. Will probably go on for years or decades.

Ukraine = Future Parking Lot
 
#41,296
#41,296
LSU-SIU said:
Obviously, I disagree but that has been discussed to death. Putin doesn't really care and the Ukraine will continue to be destroyed. They will have time to reflect on the the decisions made from the parking lot.

In the meantime, onto Europe. (I have no idea how this turns out, right now it looks pretty disastrous on many levels if those energy prices continue to go up... I would think they ease at some point.)

I would say the globe is getting inch by inch close to global reset. The Great Unwind.
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There is a very easy solution to this for Europe, but in particular Germany. Lift the sanctions and/or open Nordstream 2 and/or get the Nordstream 1 turbines fixed and sent to Russia.
 
#41,297
#41,297
#41,298
#41,298
Rasputin_Vol said:
There is a very easy solution to this for Europe, but in particular Germany. Lift the sanctions and/or open Nordstream 2 and/or get the Nordstream 1 turbines fixed and sent to Russia.
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All of this was/is avoidable... easily. We'll see how this turns out for Germany/Europe over the winter and next few years. Damage is being on all fronts. It looks like some are on a suicide mission. Ole well.

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#41,300
#41,300
Rasputin_Vol said:
A decade and a half in Vietnam, 20 years in Afghanistan, and 2 invasions in the last 30 years in Iraq against rice farmers, goatherders and cave dwellers.

You might want to shut your mouth about this 3 day nonsense.
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You’re trying too hard and, once again, failing. You would have a point of Russia occupied all of Ukraine but failed to break local resistance to their rule. In reality, Russia is forced to pretend their offensive on Kiev was a feint because they were too weak to take it.
 
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