War in Ukraine

#41,301
#41,301
tvolsfan said:
You’re acting like this was some secret. Russia was never serious about the supposed terms. They’re in Ukraine for land, not security.
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So if you go back and read the unhighlighted portions of the quote that is exactly what’s implied. Lavrov and Putin were not interested at this time everyone had bought into Russia’s hubris. Then we all see the real Russian military exposed and now the Keystone Cops are mired in a battlefield they were supposed to dominate and instead are locked in a stalemate. Whoopsie!
 
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#41,302
#41,302
LSU-SIU said:
All of this was/is avoidable... easily. We'll see how this turns out for Germany/Europe over the winter and next few years. Damage is being on all fronts. It looks like some are on a suicide mission. Ole well.

willy-wonka-stop-dont-come-back.gif
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This wheel turns slowly... just like all of the money printing and supply chain issues of 2020 took a while to reverberate through the economy. Dislocations and shortages in supplies today will likely have effects for far longer than this winter.
 
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#41,303
#41,303
tvolsfan said:
You’re acting like this was some secret. Russia was never serious about the supposed terms. They’re in Ukraine for land, not security.
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If they were there just for land, they would have annexed the Donbas republics back in 2014 when they passed their own referendums. Instead, Putin rejected their referendums at the time with the hopes of having the Minsk II Agreements rectifying the issue. Donbas would have still been part of Ukraine right now had Ukraine been able to hold up their end of the bargain. I say "been able to" because it is obvious that Western powers wanted the Kyiv regime to drag this out long enough for them to get their army built and trained up. Kyiv was just taking their orders from the US and the Brits.
 
#41,304
#41,304
tvolsfan said:
You’re trying too hard and, once again, failing. You would have a point of Russia occupied all of Ukraine but failed to break local resistance to their rule. In reality, Russia is forced to pretend their offensive on Kiev was a feint because they were too weak to take it.
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I think the original move to Kyiv was to try to get 3elensky to quickly come to the table. But once that didn't happen, they kept a force there to hold up forces in Kyiv while the real fighting was being started in Donbas. They had roughly 40k troops there at the time. There is no way they would have realistically been able to storm a city of 3 million with that number of troops.

As far as the Donbas and southern Ukraine, they mostly see the Russians as liberators, not invaders. They have little desire of going back to the Kyiv regime at this point.
 
#41,305
#41,305
Rasputin_Vol said:
If they were there just for land, they would have annexed the Donbas republics back in 2014 when they passed their own referendums. Instead, Putin rejected their referendums at the time with the hopes of having the Minsk II Agreements rectifying the issue. Donbas would have still been part of Ukraine right now had Ukraine been able to hold up their end of the bargain. I say "been able to" because it is obvious that Western powers wanted the Kyiv regime to drag this out long enough for them to get their army built and trained up. Kyiv was just taking their orders from the US and the Brits.
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The Donbas is just the Ukrainian version of South Ossetia and Transnistria. A foothold.
 
#41,306
#41,306
Rasputin_Vol said:
I think the original move to Kyiv was to try to get 3elensky to quickly come to the table. But once that didn't happen, they kept a force there to hold up forces in Kyiv while the real fighting was being started in Donbas. They had roughly 40k troops there at the time. There is no way they would have realistically been able to storm a city of 3 million with that number of troops.

As far as the Donbas and southern Ukraine, they mostly see the Russians as liberators, not invaders. They have little desire of going back to the Kyiv regime at this point.
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I assume you’re referring to the ones who are still there after Russia‘s ethnic cleansing?
 
#41,308
#41,308
NorthDallas40 said:
So if you go back and read the unhighlighted portions of the quote that is exactly what’s implied. Lavrov and Putin were not interested at this time everyone had bought into Russia’s hubris. Then we all see the real Russian military exposed and now the Keystone Cops are mired in a battlefield they were supposed to dominate and instead are locked in a stalemate. Whoopsie!
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How is it a stalemate when they are gaining territory with each passing day? But even if you want to believe that nonsense, even if Russia just stood still and didn't move forward one inch, the Ukrainians would still be losing men and materials because 3elensky will be encouraged by the West to keep making these disastrous counteroffensives.
 
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#41,309
#41,309
tvolsfan said:
I assume you’re referring to the ones who are still there after Russia‘s ethnic cleansing?
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Refugees are one of the consequences of conflict. The West didn't seem to care about that, else they would have encouraged Kyiv to find a peaceful resolution.
 
#41,313
#41,313
tvolsfan said:
You’re acting like this was some secret. Russia was never serious about the supposed terms. They’re in Ukraine for land, not security.
Click to expand...

Any land acquired is only possible long term based on the (will of) people in the area. The initial push was to get them to act under the terms, plenty of notices were given. Of course, once third parties came in, well, they are going to see how far they can acquire (support of the people) can go.

There is no win option on the board for the Ukraine. Russia isn't there to nation build.
 
#41,318
#41,318
tvolsfan said:
I see, going with the “Nazis in Warsaw” route.
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I don't know what that means. There simply is no realistic win option for the Ukraine on the table. Maybe something will change, hard to envision. There is no war in the Ukraine.... there is a black hole of death, destruction and money laundering. The article, just like the article I posted the other day are on point. Obvious observation. The war in the Ukraine is over, just like the war in Afghanistan was over when it just started. There is only a set number of ways it can turn out.

People can post all this information with film of drone strikes, artillery hits, etc. but its mostly irrelevant at this stage. People stopped watching all the stuff about Afghanistan and Syria, it all became moot.
 
#41,320
#41,320
Rasputin_Vol said:
Hypocrisy and selective outrage. You are fine and dandy with one situation, yet scream blood murder elsewhere under similar circumstances.
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Nope. With the exception of Palestine, you cited stuff in the past, making it clear how weak your arguments are. You are comparing current Russia to America at its most racist and imperialist, and seem oblivious to how dumb it makes you and Russia look.
 
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#41,321
#41,321
tvolsfan said:
Nope. With the exception of Palestine, you cited stuff in the past, making it clear how weak your arguments are. You are comparing current Russia to America at its most racist and imperialist, and seem oblivious to how dumb it makes you and Russia look.
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You are the one that cited a tweet with regards to Koreans 80 years ago. I simply responded to where you took it.

tvolsfan said:
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#41,322
#41,322
tvolsfan said:
No surprises here.
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YOu just utter some words doesn't really mean much. Look I know you are upset and angry, your strange comments are result of that. However, nothing is going to change because you're mad. Nothing is going to change by acting in this manner.

There simply is no realistic path to any significant victory for the Ukraine. Play stupid game, win stupid prizes. You can get mad but it isn't going to change anything.
 
#41,323
#41,323
Rasputin_Vol said:
How is it a stalemate when they are gaining territory with each passing day? But even if you want to believe that nonsense, even if Russia just stood still and didn't move forward one inch, the Ukrainians would still be losing men and materials because 3elensky will be encouraged by the West to keep making these disastrous counteroffensives.
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Well that’s your claim Moe. And all you have to support it is Russian state media and the stooge circle jerk confirmation group.

No mention of the Kherson offensive in your propaganda speech I noticed either. They haven’t taken any large swaths yet in Kherson but they are pounding the stationary Russian forces in the Kherson area. (Actually you did mention it, just as more propaganda though. “Disastrous counteroffensives” 😂🤡)

Ukraine takes out Russian bridge as Kherson counter-offensive ramps up

Basically, I don’t buy a bit of your propaganda speech. Which is all your post is.
 
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