War in Ukraine

[DonjoVol]

Zelensky probably isn’t a good guy, but he’s also not the aggressor here.

Besides, we tried this with Assad in Syria and Ras practically tripped over his own d*** crying about how Assad was democratically elected and that rumors of his use of chemical weapons against his own people were just CIA false flag operations. In fact, Ras cheered when Russia put boots on the ground in Syria in an effort to prop up Assad.

I'm not talking about who the aggressor is. I'm specifically referring to Zelensky's regime and the regimes since Yanukovych which you still refuse to call out or criticize.

Speaking of Syria. Would you have preferred ISIS took over Syria? You do realize Assad had to fight them along with Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups? And the Syrian "rebels" that McCain and our government tried to prop up weren't exactly angels like some have been led to believe.

Also. Under Assad Christians, Druze, Alawites, etc are free to worship and aren't discriminated against. Which is probably one reason why he's been democratically elected by the people of Syria.

 

[DonjoVol]

I agree. But the US invasion of Grenada shouldn’t be the ground you and others stand on to justify Putin’s invasion of Ukraine.

In fact, I don’t think I’ve read any criticism of Putin by you, Ras, volgr, LSUSIU, etc. it’s just a litany if the perceived sins of the West against the Holy War being exercised by Russia.

I haven't mentioned Grenada not even once lol.

And if you guys really are that concerned about sovereign nations being invaded or attacked then go ahead and condemn every other country that's doing it right now. If not then you and others are nothing but hypocrites.

 

[LouderVol]

@LSU-SIU and anyone else who believes this is an economic war now.

Let's play out a hypothetical. Let's say the war ends tomorrow on relatively friendly terms for Ukraine. So much so that the west drops all of its sanctions versus Russia. Does Russia then start selling oil to the West? Or do they keep up their real effort to topple Europe for more than a year, to the next winter when alledgely things will be real bad for Europe?

 

[MG1968]

I'm not talking about who the aggressor is. I'm specifically referring to Zelensky's regime and the regimes since Yanukovych which you still refuse to call out or criticize.

Speaking of Syria. Would you have preferred ISIS took over Syria? You do realize Assad had to fight them along with Al Qaeda and other terrorist groups? And the Syrian "rebels" that McCain and our government tried to prop up weren't exactly angels like some have been led to believe.

Also. Under Assad Christians, Druze, Alawites, etc are free to worship and aren't discriminated against. Which is probably one reason why he's been democratically elected by the people of Syria.

So not being critical of Zelensky invalidates my criticism of Putin?

Nick Saban is a jerk and I want him to lose every game he coaches especially against UT. In saying that, do I also need to talk about how corrupt and incompetent UT was during the Dooley, Jones and Pruitt eras? Can I hate Bama and their coach without having to say, “but UT ain’t perfect, either.”

Because that seems to be the point you’re trying to make.

 

[LouderVol]

I haven't mentioned Grenada not even once lol.

And if you guys really are that concerned about sovereign nations being invaded or attacked then go ahead and condemn every other country that's doing it right now. If not then you and others are nothing but hypocrites.

Uh this is a thread about Russias invasion of Ukraine. It is not hypocritical to call out Russia for invading Ukraine in a thread about Russia invading Ukraine.

Now you want to go start some threads about Xs invasion of Y so you can complain about how bad our hyprocisy is over that, feel free.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

What that means... is the "Old Russia". Russia will remain. As democratic, and sustainable.

The Apex of this war is over Crimea. If you give up Crimea, This war will end.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I'm just going to leave this out here, as I believe it relates not only of the state of this union but the perception of the United States/Europe abroad.

In the mid-80s, a family (Bush family) used major U.S. assets including military and CIA planes, personnel, airports, bank accounts, etc to move drugs into the United States from Central America. Much of the drugs were delivered to Arkansas where future President Clinton was governor, but many of the drugs were distributed in other places like Scott AFB Illinois. The drugs were dropped off on one side of the flight line and than were moved out the back gate which than were transport for further distribution in East St. Louis. At this same time, ole Ronnie was giving his prep talks about no drugs and putting black drug dealers in jail for the drugs his administration was moving into the country. The family than used the money to procure illegal firearms using US assets to move them back to Central America.... all in the name of "freedom". It would be hard to imagine the number of counts in a federal indictment on all this.... besides being treasonous.

How is this even possible? Why is nobody in jail even today? Why are people not on the other end of a rope?

That same family was responsible either directly or indirectly with invasions of Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Somalia, Libya and Afghanistan. That family during this time had members that were Vice President (1980-1988) or President (1988-1992, 2000-2008).

And if you think that **** quit when that family left are really living in the dream, see Hillary Clinton e-mails. The reason they are all good ole pals is they are in the same gang, and you ain't a member.

The reason why Gulf I happened Iraqi said was because of Panama, everyone seemed to think invasions were cool. The reason Gulf II and Afghanistan needed to happen is Congress figured out the U.S. couldn't really win a war with Russia in Eastern Europe, see Congressional Record. The defense contracts had to keep going... where to use all the new weapon systems? The rest of the nonsense like Syria, Libya, ISIS, Yemen, etc. is just nonsense to kill people so that the defense contractors can make money.... and the United States can keep everyone down. And the people in charge get a cut.

I think one has to keep this in mind when dealing with foreign military matters as the United State's track record is a train wreck, rushing to judgement because the U.S. says so... has constantly ended in disaster. Letting others figure out their own situation and problems might be best.

Its just something to think about as history in the last 25-50 years has shown that the facts, and conclusions end up being completely different than what the United States claims.

 

[MG1968]

I'm just going to leave this out here, as I believe it relates not only of the state of this union but the perception of the United States/Europe abroad.

In the mid-80s, a family (Bush family) used major U.S. assets including military and CIA planes, personnel, airports, bank accounts, etc to move drugs into the United States from Central America. Much of the drugs were delivered to Arkansas where future President Clinton was governor, but many of the drugs were distributed in other places like Scott AFB Illinois. The drugs were dropped off on one side of the flight line and than were moved out the back gate which than were transport for further distribution in East St. Louis. At this same time, ole Ronnie was giving his prep talks about no drugs and putting black drug dealers in jail for the drugs his administration was moving into the country. The family than used the money to procure illegal firearms using US assets to move them back to Central America.... all in the name of "freedom". It would be hard to imagine the number of counts in a federal indictment on all this.... besides being treasonous.

How is this even possible? Why is nobody in jail even today? Why are people not on the other end of a rope?

That same family was responsible either directly or indirectly with invasions of Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Somalia, Libya and Afghanistan. That family during this time had members that were Vice President (1980-1988) or President (1988-1992, 2000-2008).

And if you think that **** quit when that family left are really living in the dream, see Hillary Clinton e-mails. The reason they are all good ole pals is they are in the same gang, and you ain't a member.

The reason why Gulf I happened Iraqi said was because of Panama, everyone seemed to think invasions were cool. The reason Gulf II and Afghanistan needed to happen is Congress figured out the U.S. couldn't really win a war with Russia in Eastern Europe, see Congressional Record. The defense contracts had to keep going... where to use all the new weapon systems? The rest of the nonsense like Syria, Libya, ISIS, Yemen, etc. is just nonsense to kill people so that the defense contractors can make money.... and the United States can keep everyone down. And the people in charge get a cut.

I think one has to keep this in mind when dealing with foreign military matters as the United State's track record is a train wreck, rushing to judgement because the U.S. says so... has constantly ended in disaster. Letting others figure out their own situation and problems might be best.

Its just something to think about as history in the last 25-50 years has shown that the facts, and conclusions end up being completely different than what the United States claims.

You’re right. Putin is a saint and his Holy Crusade against Zelensky and the West is just and righteous.

 

[DonjoVol]

Uh this is a thread about Russias invasion of Ukraine. It is not hypocritical to call out Russia for invading Ukraine in a thread about Russia invading Ukraine.

Now you want to go start some threads about Xs invasion of Y so you can complain about how bad our hyprocisy is over that, feel free.

MG brought up Syria and Grenada in his/hers/ their post to me. So as far as I'm concerned I'm free to respond to the point being brought up. If you don't like it then move on to the next post.

 

[MG1968]

MG brought up Syria and Grenada in his/hers/ their post to me. So as far as I'm concerned I'm free to respond to the point being brought up. If you don't like it then move on to the next post.

My preferred pronouns are he/his/him/dude.

TYVM.

 

[DonjoVol]

So not being critical of Zelensky invalidates my criticism of Putin?

Nick Saban is a jerk and I want him to lose every game he coaches especially against UT. In saying that, do I also need to talk about how corrupt and incompetent UT was during the Dooley, Jones and Pruitt eras? Can I hate Bama and their coach without having to say, “but UT ain’t perfect, either.”

Because that seems to be the point you’re trying to make.

You're saying I haven't been critical of Russia or Putin. I have been. However I'm going to be critical of fascist Zelensky, neocon socialist Biden, Ukraine, NATO and the U.S., U.K and whoever else I want to be critical of as well. However, you still refuse to be critical of Zelensky and his blatant fascism.

 

[DonjoVol]

My preferred pronouns are he/his/him/dude.

TYVM.

Lol. I apparently misgendered someone before so didn't want to make that mistake again.

 

[MG1968]

You're saying I haven't been critical of Russia or Putin. I have been. However I'm going to be critical of fascist Zelensky, neocon socialist Biden, Ukraine, NATO and the U.S., U.K and whoever else I want to be critical of as well. However, you still refuse to be critical of Zelensky and his blatant fascism.

Why should I be critical of him? I’ve already acknowledged he’s a breadless s**t sandwich. I just think Putin is piled higher and deeper.

 

[LSU-SIU]

@LSU-SIU and anyone else who believes this is an economic war now.

Let's play out a hypothetical. Let's say the war ends tomorrow on relatively friendly terms for Ukraine. So much so that the west drops all of its sanctions versus Russia. Does Russia then start selling oil to the West? Or do they keep up their real effort to topple Europe for more than a year, to the next winter when alledgely things will be real bad for Europe?

Well, the problem is the Russians already basically said they were out of the whole negotiations thing for a reason. Its always possible someone like Turkey or China tries to get them back in there.

Russia is currently selling oil and gas to Europe, just some of the stuff has been shutdown. Also, plenty of oil is still getting to Europe from Russia via third parties i.e. huge markups.

Europe is going to have to find lots of new energy for the medium and long-term even if all parties agreed to end all this tomorrow. There are long-term problems for Europe... and increasingly for the United States. Energy production in the U.S. hasn't really gone up for 15-20 years despite the population rise.

These are long-term problems.

 

[LouderVol]

Well, the problem is the Russians already basically said they were out of the whole negotiations thing for a reason. Its always possible someone like Turkey or China tries to get them back in there.

Russia is currently selling oil and gas to Europe, just some of the stuff has been shutdown. Also, plenty of oil is still getting to Europe from Russia via third parties i.e. huge markups.

Europe is going to have to find lots of new energy for the medium and long-term even if all parties agreed to end all this tomorrow. There are long-term problems for Europe... and increasingly for the United States. Energy production in the U.S. hasn't really gone up for 15-20 years despite the population rise.

These are long-term problems.

But does Russia go back to pre sanctions level of sales to Europe? Or rather, would they? Europe may keep the dumb and pay for more expensive power, but would Russia give up the economic war if the sanctions dropped and Europe was willing to buy?

 

[Hunerwadel]

NATO should prepare for all-out war with Russia as Putin grows desperate amid Ukraine victories: ex NATO brass (msn.com)

They've been preparing for that since 1949.

 

[Velo Vol]

I'm just going to leave this out here, as I believe it relates not only of the state of this union but the perception of the United States/Europe abroad.

In the mid-80s, a family (Bush family) used major U.S. assets including military and CIA planes, personnel, airports, bank accounts, etc to move drugs into the United States from Central America. Much of the drugs were delivered to Arkansas where future President Clinton was governor, but many of the drugs were distributed in other places like Scott AFB Illinois. The drugs were dropped off on one side of the flight line and than were moved out the back gate which than were transport for further distribution in East St. Louis. At this same time, ole Ronnie was giving his prep talks about no drugs and putting black drug dealers in jail for the drugs his administration was moving into the country. The family than used the money to procure illegal firearms using US assets to move them back to Central America.... all in the name of "freedom". It would be hard to imagine the number of counts in a federal indictment on all this.... besides being treasonous.

How is this even possible? Why is nobody in jail even today? Why are people not on the other end of a rope?

That same family was responsible either directly or indirectly with invasions of Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Somalia, Libya and Afghanistan. That family during this time had members that were Vice President (1980-1988) or President (1988-1992, 2000-2008).

And if you think that **** quit when that family left are really living in the dream, see Hillary Clinton e-mails. The reason they are all good ole pals is they are in the same gang, and you ain't a member.

The reason why Gulf I happened Iraqi said was because of Panama, everyone seemed to think invasions were cool. The reason Gulf II and Afghanistan needed to happen is Congress figured out the U.S. couldn't really win a war with Russia in Eastern Europe, see Congressional Record. The defense contracts had to keep going... where to use all the new weapon systems? The rest of the nonsense like Syria, Libya, ISIS, Yemen, etc. is just nonsense to kill people so that the defense contractors can make money.... and the United States can keep everyone down. And the people in charge get a cut.

I think one has to keep this in mind when dealing with foreign military matters as the United State's track record is a train wreck, rushing to judgement because the U.S. says so... has constantly ended in disaster. Letting others figure out their own situation and problems might be best.

Its just something to think about as history in the last 25-50 years has shown that the facts, and conclusions end up being completely different than what the United States claims.

What is all this carp?

Russia sent its military into a neighboring country to kill people and take their land. Do you believe that is wrong or not?

 

[LSU-SIU]

What is all this carp?

Russia sent its military into a neighboring country to kill people and take their land. Do you believe that is wrong or not?

You and I won't agree on context, no I don't see anything wrong with it.

The rest of that crap is what your country has been up to.

 

[apevol]

What is all this carp?

Russia sent its military into a neighboring country to kill people and take their land. Do you believe that is wrong or not?

hes been giggling like a school girl about nukes for days.

 

[LSU-SIU]

But does Russia go back to pre sanctions level of sales to Europe? Or rather, would they? Europe may keep the dumb and pay for more expensive power, but would Russia give up the economic war if the sanctions dropped and Europe was willing to buy?

I don't think anyone will know how this turns out. I don't claim to know. I will say it will be hard for any side to really walk back at this point. We could all be heading for some more escalation until RESET.

I mean Trump was partially right, meaning Europe especially Germany might be too dependent on foreign energy. However, something he didn't mention is Germany (and the world) is dependent on the United States as the world's banker.

Germany had two choices, comply or be cut off potentially from the Federal Reserve system.... or be cutoff by Russia's energy supply. This is why all the countries are taking about i.e. China, Russia, India, Saudi Arabia, etc. The problem is... there is no real way of getting off the US printer without RESET. That is where Putin is completely wrong.

At the end of the day... I think we are talking (or we are currently going down the path) Brenton Wood III but it will be a complete RESET unlike the reorganization of the deck chairs that was 1930-1945.

Many of the 7 billion are going to have to go, if they all continue down this path.

 

[MontyPython]

We've reached DEFCON 5 ranting by LSU, Ras and the orange Kool-aid gang.

Nothing you say will ever convince me (or any reasonable, rational person) of anything other than the truth:

Russia invaded Ukraine for no good reason other than Putin's imperialist ambitions.

By all means, scream til you turn blue comrades.

 

[DonjoVol]

Why should I be critical of him? I’ve already acknowledged he’s a breadless s**t sandwich. I just think Putin is piled higher and deeper.

Then I must have missed your criticism as you did mine of Putin and Russia previously.

 

[volgr]

What is all this carp?

Russia sent its military into a neighboring country to kill people and take their land. Do you believe that is wrong or not?

Not. I would expect the US to do the same in self defense if the roles were reversed.

 

[volgr]

Russia invaded Ukraine for no good reason other than Putin's imperialist ambitions.

Only problem is, if this were true, Putin could have taken the whole of Ukraine quite easily in 2014. He could take the whole of Ukraine today as well, although it would be considerably harder than it would have been in 2014.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

The blood of those people are on Putin’s hands.

How is it on Putin? They person they elected was overthrown. They did not consider the new govt the legitimate govt. Putin had nothing to do with that.