War in Ukraine

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#45,304
LSU-SIU said:
It would seem like its fair game to cut underseas communication cables or gas/oil pipelines, or in the alternative satellites. Anything unmanned is fair game at the least. Seems like in the realm of possibilities to make it difficult for mass communications globally if one of the big players wants it to happen.

Why would anyone invest any of this going forward?

We're seeing the end of globalization in real-time.
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I just can't see the Americans being this stupid... nor the Russians. Now Liz Truss and the UK? And I might throw in the Poles and Ukrainians but I'm not certain they have means to do that job.
 
#45,307
#45,307
DonjoVol said:
So Caucasian is a race?

I thought Ukrainians were Slavs?

Caucasians would be Georgians, Chechens, Dargins, etc.

Norris said there were only 3 races: White, Black, Asian. You liked that post so I figured you agreed with it.

There was a whole thread on whether Jews were their own race. Maybe you should put your input in that thread as well.
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This entire debate about "race" or ethnic groupings or whatever is just a distraction and a way of derailing the main point that there are distinctions (however subtle) between Russians and Ukrainians. I made the mistake of saying ethnic Russians early on in this conflict and these jackals were saying back then that Russian is not an ethnicity. Fine, whatever... they understand the general point I was making, yet they attempt to discredit my entire point by picking and parsing over semantics.
 
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#45,310
#45,310
Orangeburst said:
Why would Russia sabotage the pipeline when they control the spigot?
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A couple of reasons.

1. to cut off Germany and other countries (but mainly Germany) who were buying in violation of the sanctions
2. see number 1 while hoping it garnered support and sympathy from other nations not involved. A false flag.
 
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Rasputin_Vol said:
What is there not to understand? The US forced them to abandon NS2 right as it was completed and the sanctions that the US and UK were pushing helped to shutdown NS1 because of the turbine debacle. Had Germany been a free and independent country and not an American occupied state for the past 75+ years, they would have been fine.
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Had Germany not been controlled by the U.S., it would be a Russian state by now as well as most of Europe.
 
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#45,315
hog88 said:
A couple of reasons.

1. to cut off Germany and other countries (but mainly Germany) who were buying in violation of the sanctions
2. see number 1 while hoping it garnered support and sympathy from other nations not involved. A false flag.
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They had control of the taps. Plus, why would they sabotage any possible future revenue? Also, during this entire conflict in Ukraine, with pipelines crisscrossing all over that country, how many times did they bomb or destroy gas pipelines?
 
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#45,317
#45,317
More Bad News: Weimar Or Venezuela?

I agree with the article, it doesn't matter who did it in the end. But my two cents it doesn't make sense for Russia to blow it up, they never had to turn it back on.

Nord Stream is not just shut down, but blown up. Does it matter if it was the Russians who did it or the US (as one Polish MEP alleges)? It’s gone. The really bad news is now we are in that kind of world, no pipeline is safe. Indeed, no sooner did Bloomberg carry a headline saying “Europe Gas Prices Have Peaked Despite Nord Stream-Led Volatility” than Russia said it may stop sending gas via Ukraine too. Moreover, thoughts turn to what would happen if Norway’s pipeline to Europe fell off a yacht or out of a window. So, European gas prices spiked.
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Now at this point, its very possible that the United States, Ukraine, and Russia all have interest in seeing the Norway pipelines go away. The article is saying what I said last night.

1. no pipeline under non-control water is safe (plus cable lines and satellites)
2. it really doesn't matter who did it at this point
3. Russia, Ukraine, and the United States all have interest in seeing the Norway pipelines get blown up.
 
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Rasputin_Vol said:
They had control of the taps. Plus, why would they sabotage any possible future revenue? Also, during this entire conflict in Ukraine, with pipelines crisscrossing all over that country, how many times did they bomb or destroy gas pipelines?
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Maybe someone else in Russia wasn't paying the tribute to Putin for the gas Germany was buying?
 
#45,321
#45,321
PKT_VOL said:
There are equally plausible arguments, via motivations, for both the US and Russia.

The strongest asymmetrical argument would be for the US. From a pure capabilities perspective, the US is way more likely to have technology, assets, and knowhow to pull this off seamlessly. The capabilities argument grows stronger every day given the ****show of Russian military capabilities currently on display in Ukraine. It would be a much easier sell if this happened on February 24th.

On the other hand, if Russia was able to pull this off, NATO should have a mountain of easily verifiable evidence. NATO not having a mountain of intelligence would be even more concerning than Russian capabilities for the West.
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Access is a big equalizer here. Russia controls one end and their biggest military assets are their subs.

I will be interested to see what details come out for the damage. Wouldnt be too complicated for Russia to drop a bomb down the pipe on some type of timer/geolocator.

Russia maintains a strong sub presence in the region, giving them plenty of access for an outside attack. And their sub fleet is definitely stronger than ours.

Both the nazi's and the allies were blowing up undersea stuff in WW2. The tech is nothing new or overly complicated.
 
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#45,324
hog88 said:
I believe that it was in use and Germany was buying Russian gas outside of the sanctions.
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That would be very interesting if anyone could prove it. I know the russians have been publically complaining about siphoning for years.

I looked it up and all three pipelines, including Nord2, which never actually went into operation, all had pressurized oil/gas in them. With that being the case it seems like we should know if anyone was moving oil or gas when they shouldnt have been.
 
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