War in Ukraine

#45,327
#45,327
Rasputin_Vol said:
This entire debate about "race" or ethnic groupings or whatever is just a distraction and a way of derailing the main point that there are distinctions (however subtle) between Russians and Ukrainians. I made the mistake of saying ethnic Russians early on in this conflict and these jackals were saying back then that Russian is not an ethnicity. Fine, whatever... they understand the general point I was making, yet they attempt to discredit my entire point by picking and parsing over semantics.
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According to Dallas, Zelensky and Putin are the same race.
 
#45,329
#45,329
Rasputin_Vol said:
This entire debate about "race" or ethnic groupings or whatever is just a distraction and a way of derailing the main point that there are distinctions (however subtle) between Russians and Ukrainians. I made the mistake of saying ethnic Russians early on in this conflict and these jackals were saying back then that Russian is not an ethnicity. Fine, whatever... they understand the general point I was making, yet they attempt to discredit my entire point by picking and parsing over semantics.
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Lol. I understand what you're saying. And I'm honestly not sure why Dallas and his crew brought this up again a few days ago. But since they did I figured I would weigh in once again. They always appreciate my feedback.
 
#45,331
#45,331
DonjoVol said:
Lol. I understand what you're saying. And I'm honestly not sure why Dallas and his crew brought this up again a few days ago. But since they did I figured I would weigh in once again. They always appreciate my feedback.
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I don’t know why but I’d guess we were likely mocking your post history on race vs ethnicity? Again?
 
#45,332
#45,332
825VOL said:


This is hilarious. The blowhard on Russian TV just got drafted and doesn't want to go. He says send in the minorities.
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He was shown on an earlier video complaining about the way the call-up was being handled and the fact that Russia was unable to provide better supplies and weapons to their troops. That might have put him on a list.
 
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#45,333
#45,333
LouderVol said:
That would be very interesting if anyone could prove it. I know the russians have been publically complaining about siphoning for years.

I looked it up and all three pipelines, including Nord2, which never actually went into operation, all had pressurized oil/gas in them. With that being the case it seems like we should know if anyone was moving oil or gas when they shouldnt have been.
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One of our 3 letter agencies probably does know, we probably never will.
 
#45,337
#45,337
US Urges Increased Vigilance Of EU-Bound LNG Tankers After Nord Stream Sabotage

US Secretary of Energy Jennifer Granholm was quoted by Bloomberg as saying following the "apparent sabotage" of NS1 and NS2 pipelines, EU nations must increase security around energy assets, that includes LNG carriers en route to Europe.
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At this point the Ukrainians control a good portion of gas coming into Europe. All three parties (United States, Russia, and Ukraine) probably have incentive to destroy much of the remaining pipelines and tankers.
 
#45,339
#45,339
#45,340
#45,340
Velo Vol said:
I laughed at this reply.

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IF, and it is a big IF, Ukraine survives this war and gets Crimea back, Ukraine as well as Poland could become the new darlings of the West. I could see the West investing large amounts of $$ to "modernize' these two countries given their responses to the war so far. There would be tons of money to make for corporations and banks. Access to the Black sea, oil, gas, mineral deposits, and fertile farming areas in Ukraine make it very attractive. Poland could easily replace Germany as the American outpost in Europe.

You may laugh, but it is entirely possible depending on how this war ends.
 
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#45,341
#45,341
USF grad in TN said:
The US has an incentive to be sure Europe has enough supply to make it through the winter so they all stay onboard.
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No, they (Europe) don't have any other option now. The United States fixed the glitch. Europe could have collectively told the U.S. to **** off, now what else they got?

What other option they got? (Sovereign my ass)

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#45,342
#45,342
LouderVol said:
Access is a big equalizer here. Russia controls one end and their biggest military assets are their subs.

I will be interested to see what details come out for the damage. Wouldnt be too complicated for Russia to drop a bomb down the pipe on some type of timer/geolocator.

Russia maintains a strong sub presence in the region, giving them plenty of access for an outside attack. And their sub fleet is definitely stronger than ours.

Both the nazi's and the allies were blowing up undersea stuff in WW2. The tech is nothing new or overly complicated.
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They have access to one end of the pipe, but German also has access to the other end of the pipe. I would imagine this means that both sides have access to sensor data and that sensor data would indicate if Russia had tried to bomb the pipe internally. Would be a really bad way to do this covertly. I am assuming that if Russia did this, they would want some plausible deniability.

As for the submarine technology, I agree wholeheartedly they have the capability on paper. However, there are two issues with this. First, we have seen via the Russian Army/Airforce in Ukraine, capabilities on paper do not necessarily translate into reality. This argument would have been much strong on February 24th versus now. Secondly, although they might have raw physical ability to bomb the pipeline underwater, would they have the capability to pull this off without NATO knowing? Possible, but not probable. If they did, NATO has much bigger problems than Russia's ability to blowup underwater pipelines. They would have a massive intelligence blind spot.
 
#45,344
#45,344
825VOL said:
IF, and it is a big IF, Ukraine survives this war and gets Crimea back, Ukraine as well as Poland could become the new darlings of the West. I could see the West investing large amounts of $$ to "modernize' these two countries given their responses to the war so far. There would be tons of money to make for corporations and banks. Access to the Black sea, oil, gas, mineral deposits, and fertile farming areas in Ukraine make it very attractive. Poland could easily replace Germany as the American outpost in Europe.
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It would take a Marshall Plan on steroids for many years.

Ukraine was a (relatively) poor country before the war. Even more so now. There's not going to be the appetite in the EU, etc., to fund a decade-long rebuilding project.
 
#45,345
#45,345
825VOL said:
IF, and it is a big IF, Ukraine survives this war and gets Crimea back, Ukraine as well as Poland could become the new darlings of the West. I could see the West investing large amounts of $$ to "modernize' these two countries given their responses to the war so far. There would be tons of money to make for corporations and banks. Access to the Black sea, oil, gas, mineral deposits, and fertile farming areas in Ukraine make it very attractive. Poland could easily replace Germany as the American outpost in Europe.

You may laugh, but it is entirely possible depending on how this war ends.
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Nothing would surprise me. Given the current economic instability, credit issues, looming recession, it wouldn’t surprise me to see the EU fracture. First Brexit, now Italy. It may just be a chorus of two, but it has to start somewhere. Turkey continues to get sideways with the US over number of issues and now Greece, again. One could make a case where we see them continue to distance themselves from the US and NATO, but not full on divorce. I think the new landscape from Europe to the ME could look vastly different when this all shakes out.
 
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#45,346
#45,346
Velo Vol said:
It would take a Marshall Plan on steroids for many years.

Ukraine was a (relatively) poor country before the war. Even more so now. There's not going to be the appetite in the EU, etc., to fund a decade-long rebuilding project.
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I think you are severely underestimating the greed and corruption that could continue in Ukraine if several multi-national companies and investment funds decided it was a good place for long term large returns. The EU will not be around in 20 years imo. Germany is losing its grip on power due to its own idiocy. It would be a perfect time to "start over" in untapped areas.
 
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#45,347
#45,347
825VOL said:
IF, and it is a big IF, Ukraine survives this war and gets Crimea back, Ukraine as well as Poland could become the new darlings of the West. I could see the West investing large amounts of $$ to "modernize' these two countries given their responses to the war so far. There would be tons of money to make for corporations and banks. Access to the Black sea, oil, gas, mineral deposits, and fertile farming areas in Ukraine make it very attractive. Poland could easily replace Germany as the American outpost in Europe.

You may laugh, but it is entirely possible depending on how this war ends.
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Ukraine is the largest country entirely in Europe. Just thought I'd throw that in.
 
#45,348
#45,348
Orangeburst said:
Why would Russia sabotage the pipeline when they control the spigot?
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Apparently they didnt. Else Nord 2 would have been in use before.

Russia would/could be forcing Germany's hand. As long as the life line existed Germany could always change its mind later, going back to Russian oil whenever the effects of supporting the war made things too hot/cold for the German government to resist. Now that life line is gone. The german government will have to address the issue head on now, rather than playing for time.

The knife was always there, but now it's at their throats.
 
#45,349
#45,349
Rasputin_Vol said:
We were certainly moving in that direction...

U.S. slaps sanctions on company building Russia's Nord Stream 2 pipeline

If the sanctions on the companies working on the pipeline failed, the next step would have indeed been sanctions on Germany. Again, you are either naive or a gaslighting hack.
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Wasnt able to read this article, didnt realize Reuters had a cap, but in other articles the sanctions are for actual violations, not related to the pipeline, of the sanctions. Not for building the gas line itself.
 
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#45,350
#45,350
hog88 said:
One of our 3 letter agencies probably does know, we probably never will.
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I read articles a while back about where Germany was getting their make up supply from and the back of the napkin math checked out. They are running a deficit but based on the known loss rate vs the posted values incoming it checked out. Who knows if any of those numbers are correct.

As far as I know pur alphabet's havent gone after any of the other Russian gas lines in previous conflicts. Mostly looking at Syria. Would definitely be some escalation.

Again I am thinking because those lines werent technically in legal use the potential blow back is fairly limited. If Russia wants to blow up the original trans Atlantic telegram line, they are welcome to it. It matters just as much.
 
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