War in Ukraine

[Orangeburst]

The CCP will probably coordinate their attack.
Good thing our military has been purged.

 

[Orangeburst]

I'm not wading into those waters. I'm simply stating that it's a fact that Biden's bumbling incompetence emboldens our enemies (Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, etc).

Our enemies know how divided we are internally because of his lack of national leadership.

 

[Electric Orange]

I'm not wading into those waters. I'm simply stating that it's a fact that Biden's bumbling incompetence emboldens our enemies (Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, etc).

His "incompetence" is intentional.

 

[Hunerwadel]

I'm not wading into those waters. I'm simply stating that it's a fact that Biden's bumbling incompetence emboldens our enemies (Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, etc).

The thing that has emboldened our adversaries most is our politically divided nation. We're ready to blame Biden, Trump or Obama when Putin is the one causing the trouble.

 

[VolStrom]

The thing that has emboldened our adversaries most is our politically divided nation.

No, the thing that has emboldened our adversaries is our incompetent president and his court of jesters that advise him.

 

[hog88]

The thing that has emboldened our adversaries most is our politically divided nation. We're ready to blame Biden, Trump or Obama when Putin is the one causing the trouble.

Putin is merely doing what Putin does. Do you blame the fox for raiding your chicken coup or yourself for not fixing the hole in the fence?

 

[volinbham]

Wonder what happened to Burrhead - he/she was always on top of International developments

 

[BreatheUT]

What is Alonte doing in Ukraine?

These are K'ma'la cookies.

 

[Orangeburst]

Hunter better hop a ride to convene his Ukranian pipeline board gig.

 

[BreatheUT]

Would this embolden China to move on Taiwan as a 2nd front to take advantage of the chaos?

 

[Orangeburst]

Would this embolden China to move on Taiwan as a 2nd front to take advantage of the chaos?

Throw in a third gambit in the ME. When you try and fundamentally transform America, this is what u get internationally

 

[NorthDallas40]

Hunter better hop a ride to convene his Ukranian pipeline board gig.

I wonder if Putin will be willing to take over the 10% for the big guy prior arrangement after he overruns the place. Nah why would he no reason to pay again for something you probably already own.

 

[Burhead]

I haven't been keeping up with it. Why would they want them to do that?

Well one it would be a win in the propaganda war if you have Polish (Western/NATO) troops firing on unarmed migrants from the Mid-East and two you have everyone looking at Poland and then perhaps use that as cover to do something in Ukraine?

 

[BreatheUT]

Throw in a third gambit in the ME. When you try and fundamentally transform America, this is what u get internationally

I don't see anything happening in the ME but we know China is itching to be enforcers on Taiwan if they view the US as hapless.

Edit: I didn't understand the Poland angle.

 

[StarRaider]

Wonder what happened to Burrhead - he/she was always on top of International developments

Betelgeuse Betelgeuse Betelgeuse

Well one it would be a win in the propaganda war if you have Polish (Western/NATO) troops firing on unarmed migrants from the Mid-East and two you have everyone looking at Poland and then perhaps use that as cover to do something in Ukraine?

 

[DuckInAPen]

What vital interest of the U.S. is threatened in the Ukraine, such that we would risk war with a nuclear power in that nuclear power's backyard (indeed, in that nuclear power's historical heartland)?

The Republicans tell us there's no money for domestic needs, and yet there's always plenty of money for wars to fight for "freedom" halfway around the globe.

The Democrats, meanwhile, always have a new "humanitarian" intervention to sell us, as though our previous interventions had accomplished something more than the further immiseration of the countries in which we've intervened.

In all of these conflicts, we squander the lives of our bravest and best, and we further impoverish our once prosperous nation.

The current crisis was precipitated by American meddling in the Ukraine under the ambassadorship of Victoria Nuland during the second Obama administration. The best thing we can do is to lie low and not further escalate the hostilities.

May God grant our leaders wisdom and restraint.

 

[Burhead]

What vital interest of the U.S. is threatened in the Ukraine, such that we would risk war with a nuclear power in that nuclear power's backyard (indeed, in that nuclear power's historical heartland)?

The Republicans tell us there's no money for domestic needs, and yet there's always plenty of money for wars to fight for "freedom" halfway around the globe.

The Democrats, meanwhile, always have a new "humanitarian" intervention to sell us, as though our previous interventions had accomplished something more than the further immiseration of the countries in which we've intervened.

In all of these conflicts, we squander the lives of our bravest and best, and we further impoverish our once prosperous nation.

The current crisis was precipitated by American meddling in the Ukraine under the ambassadorship of Victoria Nuland during the second Obama administration. The best thing we can do is to lie low and not further escalate the hostilities.

May God grant our leaders wisdom and restraint.

I think having fought two very destructive world wars in Europe we have vital interest in keeping the peace in Europe. Not to mention I would rather contain Russia in Ukraine and/or Georgia (for example) than one day allowing them to be brazen enough to roll T-72s into Tallinn, Riga, Vilnius or through the Suwalki Gap where it really would force our hand.

 

[volinbham]

Well one it would be a win in the propaganda war if you have Polish (Western/NATO) troops firing on unarmed migrants from the Mid-East and two you have everyone looking at Poland and then perhaps use that as cover to do something in Ukraine?

Nice to see you Bur

 

[Burhead]

Nice to see you Bur

Hi I'm still lurking around but work has really gotten a lot of my time now. Also I don't really have the patience to debate politics any more. It seems since Trump you can't have a civil debate anymore and disagree with something. It always feels personal now and I don't want to be apart of that so stepped away from the politics forum.

 

[TNVOLNAVY]

Not sure if anyone follows the War in Donbas any more but Russia is again building up military presence on the border. They have done this before and it turned out to be nothing but a lot people are calling this new buildup concerning because its outside of the regular Russian training schedule and in the past movements were done during the day and had video evidence and now they are being conducted at night. Not sure if this one will turn out to be real either but apparently the US is concerned. The CIA Director had a talk with Putin recently and Blinken just recently said we are seeing unusal military activity in Russia near the Ukrainian border and said the concern is there that Putin may try and rehash 2014 all over again. Combine this with the Russian directed migrant crisis on the Polish/Belarusian border and the concern that the Baltic's may also be subjected to weaponized migrant hordes this time it feels different. Also too the war in the east has sprung back to life in the past few weeks with heavy artillery being used and Ukrainian forces using their new drones to bomb Russian positions.

Good! Me and Trump are huge Putin fans.

 

[DuckInAPen]

I think having fought two very destructive world wars in Europe we have vital interest in keeping the peace in Europe. Not to mention I would rather contain Russia in Ukraine and/or Georgia (for example) than one day allowing them to be brazen enough to roll T-72s into Tallinn, Riga, Vilnius or through the Suwalki Gap where it really would force our hand.

Those two very destructive world wars ended with our Soviet allies in control of the entirety of eastern Europe. Our leaders understood that we couldn't change that fact by direct military force. They wisely pursued a policy of containment abroad and prosperity at home that, allied with the courageous moral resistance of countless brave men and women in eastern Europe, finally toppled the godless Soviet regime.

Today's Russia, however, is not the Soviet Union. She has neither the strength, nor the aspirations, nor the natural hostility to America that her predecessor possessed. Post-Soviet Russia has done us no wrong that we have not in our turn done to her. If we played our cards right, we might even now enlist the Russians as allies in the effort to contain the real communist superpower, China.

President Bush famously said, "We will fight them over there, so that we will not have to face them in the United States of America." You seem to be saying, "We will fight them in the Ukraine, so that we will not have to face them in Latvia." I ask, "Why do we need to fight them at all?"

I'm certain your knowledge of geopolitics far exceeds my own; I welcome correction of anything I've written amiss. That said, our foreign policy experts since the collapse of the Soviet Union have routinely failed us; I, for one, refuse to rush to arms at their latest cry of "wolf."

 

[Burhead]

Those two very destructive world wars ended with our Soviet allies in control of the entirety of eastern Europe. Our leaders understood that we couldn't change that fact by direct military force. They wisely pursued a policy of containment abroad and prosperity at home that, allied with the courageous moral resistance of countless brave men and women in eastern Europe, finally toppled the godless Soviet regime.

No issues there

Today's Russia, however, is not the Soviet Union. She has neither the strength, nor the aspirations, nor the natural hostility to America that her predecessor possessed. Post-Soviet Russia has done us no wrong that we have not in our turn done to her. If we played our cards right, we might even now enlist the Russians as allies in the effort to contain the real communist superpower, China.

This is where I start to disagree. Putin is KGB through and through and hates us. He wants to see us weak, demoralized, and embarrassed on the world stage. As long as he in charge there will never be an real movement on expanding American-Russian relations. Putin has aspirations of rebuilding the Soviet empire if he can and has stated the greatest geopolitical loss was the Soviet Union collapse. Ask Georgia, Ukraine, or Moldova how they like Russian meddling? Each of those states have active separatist republics within their territories and Russia is solely responsible for them being allowed to exist. If he could get away with it I do not doubt he would try something in the Baltic's but the reason he hasn't is because they are NATO/EU states.

President Bush famously said, "We will fight them over there, so that we will not have to face them in the United States of America." You seem to be saying, "We will fight them in the Ukraine, so that we will not have to face them in Latvia." I ask, "Why do we need to fight them at all?"

I don't believe we should be fighting Russians, I do support us giving assistance to the Ukrainians who ARE fighting and dying to defend their homeland and Europe from Russian aggression however. At some point you have to stand up to the bully and punch him in the mouth or he'll keep getting bolder and bolder.

I do think Putin miscalculated on allying with the Chinese. Having a weak economy and shrinking population while having a border with an expansionist China is not good for the future of Russia.

 

[Burhead]

Good! Me and Trump are huge Putin fans.

I don't believe Putin is someone Americans should be admiring.

 

[Gandalf]

I posited to a buddy after the Afghan debacle that if I were Russia, I would make a joint effort with China and Iran. A lighting strike within a week of each other.

1. Iran takes a goodly piece of Kurdistan. this starts day one rush to take and occupy Sulaymania within a week, then the Kurkuk oil fields - split the PUK and the KDP
2. Russia takes a significant portion of Ukraine from sea of azov pretty much up to the Dnieper to expand the area they already defacto control in the Crimea
3. China Blitzkriegs Taiwan

Not really much we could do - certainly not much Biden would do. Soon as US moves at least one extra Carrier strike groups to the gulf, China could make the move. Russia would have a challenge but Iran would have the toughest time I think moving quick enough. Either way, we are mentally unable to put boots on the ground or go to war with a real power right now unless our own homeland was attacked.

So the question is, if you are any of these 3, why wouldnt you do this?

 

[KB5252]

I posited to a buddy after the Afghan debacle that if I were Russia, I would make a joint effort with China and Iran. A lighting strike within a week of each other.

1. Iran takes a goodly piece of Kurdistan. this starts day one rush to take and occupy Sulaymania within a week, then the Kurkuk oil fields - split the PUK and the KDP
2. Russia takes a significant portion of Ukraine from sea of azov pretty much up to the Dnieper to expand the area they already defacto control in the Crimea
3. China Blitzkriegs Taiwan

Not really much we could do - certainly not much Biden would do. Soon as US moves at least one extra Carrier strike groups to the gulf, China could make the move. Russia would have a challenge but Iran would have the toughest time I think moving quick enough. Either way, we are mentally unable to put boots on the ground or go to war with a real power right now unless our own homeland was attacked.

So the question is, if you are any of these 3, why wouldnt you do this?

I don't think Putin would be on board, he has the most to lose. Surely Putin knows that at some point China will look to move on them?