War in Ukraine

[USF grad in TN]

"took" is a interesting choice of words. Russia retreated and left it to them. Don't act like The Kyiv regime has won anything of significance on the battlefield head-to-head.

Winter is coming. Russia will be back.

So after Ukraine cut off their supply lines and blew up most of their ammunition, they ran away so they wouldn't be killed, and that doesn't count as a win?

 

[Septic]

So after Ukraine cut off their supply lines and blew up most of their ammunition, they ran away so they wouldn't be killed, and that doesn't count as a win?

 

[NCFisher]

The confusion is completely understandable. In a crisis (and war fits the category) things go wrong and nobody knows immediately the what and how. Some research says that S-300s don't always track and hit the target - they are Russian and you don't supposed the Ukrainian inventory is new anyway. Would the people firing the missile know it went off course on it's own - one thing to consider. Why would Ukraine fire an AD missile (they presumably need) at nothing but pointed into Poland when they surely know the source and general firing coordinates could be determined? A pretty dumb approach if you are presuming a false flag event.

Seems like an AD missile gone wrong that probably wouldn't have been fired at all if Russians hadn't been targeting the power grid in the region. As far as I'm concerned, Ukraine may have done the deed, but it wouldn't have happened at all if Russia hadn't been targeting the Ukrainian power grid with cruise missiles and drones. Call it collateral responsibility.

Those are my thoughts from the outset; NATO isn't going to be rushing into a ground war with Russia on this incident and has the capability to determine origin. And it'd be dumb for Ukraine to purposely create an incident against that backdrop that could only result in the West pulling military support from them. It'd be just as dumb for Russia to purposely attack a NATO country. Thus, probably an errant missile no one is going to escalate hostilities over.

 

[NCFisher]

Possibly true in Soviet era. But for you to say that right now is disingenuous.


Well you are talking about 2 different things.
First off, the Kyiv assault was clearly meant to scare the Kyiv regime into a diplomatic solution early on. There was no way they were going to really take Kyiv with the number of soldiers they had at the time.

Secondly, you are correct with regards to Kherson... their present situation was unsustainable, so they retreated. Was that part of their original plan? No, it wasn't. Its a bad look from a political and PR perspective. But are wars fought on the ground with men and material or are wars fought with PR victories?


That is a perfect outcome for the West and the US, but that is a horrible outcome for Ukraine. You saying this right here shows the exact problem that we have been pointing out at the very beggining. This isn't about Ukrainian soverignty. This is simply about trying to drag Russia into a qugamire and drain resources to weaken them... with Ukrainians being the cannon fodder. This is what you just said.


Which explains exactly why Russia will win.. and is winning. Because to them, this is . NATO has broken every promise and has agitated The Russian Federation for 30 years and Ukraine represents the red line. They are willing to go as far as necessary. On the other hand, the people in The West funding this war have no real skin in the game other than their rackets and money making MIC schemes.

Nah; if it's "an existential fight for the survival of the Russian Federation" it's because the federation sees the sickness in Russian leadership.
It might "an existential fight for the survival" of Putin because the only threat to the RF is his decision making against the backdrop of Russian willigness to keep expending blood and treasure for his delusional NATO-Nazi war.

 

[NCFisher]

Hmmmm... Ukrainians resorting to ISIS/Al Qaeda tactics. Ukra-SIS or Ukreada?

Four neo-Nazis arrested by anti-terror cops

Guffaw! - so now Ukraine is a nation of ISIS Nazis. damn you guys are no better than the left tossing the word "Nazi!" around for those who 1) aren't German 2) have no affinity for the Nazi regime, a 1000 year Reich, or establishing a nation of super Aryans and 3) no pogrom of eliminating Jews...you know, the very things that defined Nazism as a specific form of fascism, itself an evolutionary model of socialism.

Meanwhile, using your standard, you guys go mute on Putin's private armies/battalions of 'Nazis', their prominent presence in the Kremlin, because it fks up your narrative. Now Z is an ISIS-Nazi.

Just peachy logic. How about RusStasi? or Reich Federation? RussVolken, anyone?

 

[DuckInAPen]

Quite a lot of what I wrote here before this war began has been proved terribly wrong by the course of events. I owe the board a lot of retractions. I'll start with these:

[Putin] has supported materially (whether from conviction, political calculation, or some combination of the two) the revival of Christianity in Russia.

What Patriarch Kirill and many other high-ranking Russian churchmen are preaching is a foul distortion of the theology and ethics of the Orthodox Church. It's rank heresy (and heresy really is too weak a word for it).

He may well hate us, but he appears to be a rational and disciplined actor who can be counted on to pursue his country's interests without coming into military conflict with the United States or our allies of long standing.

Putin has proved himself to be irrational, undisciplined, and unspeakably cruel.

There's a great deal of ambiguity there, however, in what a Ukrainian is and where his allegiance lies.

If this was true in the immediate aftermath of the uncontested capture of Crimea, it certainly isn't now and never will be again.

I'm also dubious of our ability to identify the worse and the better actors abroad . . . I don't know what reason we have to believe that our judgment will be much better in the former Soviet Union.

Years of Chicken Littles (and chickenhawks) breathlessly warning us of the latest Hitler du jour made me too cynical. Our people did indeed understand the political landscape in Ukraine and in Russia.

 

[DuckInAPen]

I neglected to mention that the current president of this fictitious country (the one who has indicted his rivals on charges of treason) was prepared for office by his career as a comic actor, that his political party is named after his most recent television series, and that he is a proponent of, among other things, free abortions and legalized prostitution and gambling.

Whatever his deficiencies, Zelensky has proved to be a brave and steadfast patriot, a worthy leader of his nation during this cruel war.

 

[volfanhill]

Quite a lot of what I wrote here before this war began has been proved terribly wrong by the course of events. I owe the board a lot of retractions. I'll start with these:



What Patriarch Kirill and many other high-ranking Russian churchmen are preaching is a foul distortion of the theology and ethics of the Orthodox Church. It's rank heresy (and heresy really is too weak a word for it).



Putin has proved himself to be irrational, undisciplined, and unspeakably cruel.



If this was true in the immediate aftermath of the uncontested capture of Crimea, it certainly isn't now and never will be again.



Years of Chicken Littles (and chickenhawks) breathlessly warning us of the latest Hitler du jour made me too cynical. Our people did indeed understand the political landscape in Ukraine and in Russia.

Well done

 

[NCFisher]

Quite a lot of what I wrote here before this war began has been proved terribly wrong by the course of events. I owe the board a lot of retractions. I'll start with these:

Years of Chicken Littles (and chickenhawks) breathlessly warning us of the latest Hitler du jour made me too cynical. Our people did indeed understand the political landscape in Ukraine and in Russia.

It takes a tough man to fess up, and a tougher one to make a tender chicken.

 

[tvolsfan]

It takes a tough man to fess up, and a tougher one to make a tender chicken.

I would have agreed with a lot of what he said before, and I agree with his reflections now.

 

[NCFisher]

I would have agreed with a lot of what he said before, and I agree with his reflections now.

I get it. I remain as unsatisfied with U.S. projection around the globe as ever, but I temper that with 'what greater good or harm would occur without it?' and don't find easy answers, but do find more weight on the side of greater harm without it.

Pointedly, damn we've got our problems, but being =/< Russia ain't one of them.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I was born in 1968. I have only known them as an enemy.

That still doesn't refute exactly what I said. I clearly stated until the Cols War.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

4 Horsemen... wow

 

[FLVOL_79]

So after Ukraine cut off their supply lines and blew up most of their ammunition, they ran away so they wouldn't be killed, and that doesn't count as a win?

Thats a win for Soviet Russia comrade. See, master stragetist Putin planned this all along! Everything is going according to plan! Plan was invade Ukraine and pretend to take it over in 3 days, lose 100,000 soldiers and almost all combat effective equipment in year, retreat, commit war crimes, retreat, retreat, reatreat, then finally retreat back to motherland. 2nd worse military in world poke tiny Ukraine in eye with stick and show them who boss. You see retreat as loss. Russia sees retreat as extreme anti-NATO tactical maneuver and offering of goodwill and friendship. You see 100,000 dead Russians before Christmas? Russia sees bullet absorbing meat sacks depleting NATO of their ammo and learning all NATO tactical secrets!

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Ridiculous conditions for negotiations with the leadership of Ukraine. If Zelensky had been worried about his mobilized pensioners, he would not have used the word "conditions", but would have knelt for his people, as he defiantly knelt for the sake of his election as president.

The Ukrainian authorities are in the wrong position to dictate terms. We have our own conditions and they are much more realistic:
- Recognition of the LPR, DPR, Zaporozhye, Kherson, Crimea and Sevastopol as Russian;
- The extradition of all fascist criminals and shaitans responsible for the atrocities against the Russian-speaking population, or an official trial of them and a well-deserved restriction of freedom.

As you can see, nothing complicated, unlike Zelensky's conditions. But the war will end.
Until then, I personally consider it unacceptable to even stutter about negotiations.
And I want to remind you that if the impossible suddenly happens and the SVO ends without observing these conditions, then in the Chechen Republic there will be volunteers, including myself, who will force the Bandera fascists and shaitans to answer for every drop of blood.

We are not going to live with this Satanism side by side. We will not allow the West, under the guise of helping Ukraine and hanging noodles about democracy, to ruin our great country and consign our traditions and faith in the Almighty to oblivion. And if the remaining Ukrainians lack the courage to admit it and kick the NATO military out of the country, then we can. Be calm, we have enough volunteers, weapons and enthusiasm to carry out the order of the Supreme Commander and discourage the Satanists from opposing Russia.
By the way, Ukrainians, ask yourself the question: why do NATO troops almost always successfully leave the battlefield, while the mobilized are captured or killed?

 

[FLVOL_79]

Ridiculous conditions for negotiations with the leadership of Ukraine. If Zelensky had been worried about his mobilized pensioners, he would not have used the word "conditions", but would have knelt for his people, as he defiantly knelt for the sake of his election as president.

The Ukrainian authorities are in the wrong position to dictate terms. We have our own conditions and they are much more realistic:
- Recognition of the LPR, DPR, Zaporozhye, Kherson, Crimea and Sevastopol as Russian;
- The extradition of all fascist criminals and shaitans responsible for the atrocities against the Russian-speaking population, or an official trial of them and a well-deserved restriction of freedom.

As you can see, nothing complicated, unlike Zelensky's conditions. But the war will end.
Until then, I personally consider it unacceptable to even stutter about negotiations.
And I want to remind you that if the impossible suddenly happens and the SVO ends without observing these conditions, then in the Chechen Republic there will be volunteers, including myself, who will force the Bandera fascists and shaitans to answer for every drop of blood.

We are not going to live with this Satanism side by side. We will not allow the West, under the guise of helping Ukraine and hanging noodles about democracy, to ruin our great country and consign our traditions and faith in the Almighty to oblivion. And if the remaining Ukrainians lack the courage to admit it and kick the NATO military out of the country, then we can. Be calm, we have enough volunteers, weapons and enthusiasm to carry out the order of the Supreme Commander and discourage the Satanists from opposing Russia.
By the way, Ukrainians, ask yourself the question: why do NATO troops almost always successfully leave the battlefield, while the mobilized are captured or killed?

I love it when you dudes accidently out yourselves over, and over, and over.

But in reality you've quoted a Chechen scumbag from their tik tock brigade speaking literal gibberish.

 

[Zues1]

This guy is an actor who played the Ukraine president, then actually becomes the president " elected" may be a stretch of terminology.
The Biden family connection, the Trump phone call. Proxy war, Flirting with a world war, funneling of money...This whole thing is corrupt as hell and stinks like a bag full of soiled diapers.

 

[FLVOL_79]

That HIMARS none game changer not gonna be a Russian bogeyman for generations to come doing work:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWar...rsonell_inspecting_their_kamaz_hit_by_himars/

 

[LouderVol]

That doesn't answer my question. Try again, give it another shot.

He is a politician. I trust him to lie about everything. Just like Biden, and just like Putin.

No one expects an anti-missile missile to be the culprit of a deadly event. It's perfectly reasonable to think it was the entity that has been killing hundreds if not thousands of people with missiles doing this killing. His comments can easily be explained by not having all the information, no one did. I dont know why you guys always jump three conspiracies deep when there are simple logical explanations.

 

[NCFisher]

If Zelensky is willing to lie about whose rockets struck Poland and then double down and plead for the West to strike Russia because of it....what won't he lie about?

He has shown what it is. You cant put that paste back in the tube.

Who in the West/NATO/Poland looked to Z/Ukraine for determining origin of the missile when THEY have the capability to make that determination? That's right, nobody. In fact, it appears that Poland and an unnamed U.S. official declared a Russian missile hit Poland. Some in media - like the Sam Ramani twit posted here - labeled them Russian missiles intended for Ukraine and other speculation before Z/Ukraine even spoke about it. Poland and U.S. shortly clarified the Russian-made missile likely wasn't launched by Russia, and Z/Ukraine - not having NATO's rather extensive detection systems - followed their lead.

You seem to think - guffaw! - there was even an infinitesimal chance that NATO would just run with that initial impression and do what, exactly? Or that Z is dumb enough to false flag gambit which could only result in damaging Western support!

Good grief, you're a mess.

 

[LouderVol]

Ridiculous conditions for negotiations with the leadership of Ukraine. If Zelensky had been worried about his mobilized pensioners, he would not have used the word "conditions", but would have knelt for his people, as he defiantly knelt for the sake of his election as president.

The Ukrainian authorities are in the wrong position to dictate terms. We have our own conditions and they are much more realistic:
- Recognition of the LPR, DPR, Zaporozhye, Kherson, Crimea and Sevastopol as Russian;
- The extradition of all fascist criminals and shaitans responsible for the atrocities against the Russian-speaking population, or an official trial of them and a well-deserved restriction of freedom.

As you can see, nothing complicated, unlike Zelensky's conditions. But the war will end.
Until then, I personally consider it unacceptable to even stutter about negotiations.
And I want to remind you that if the impossible suddenly happens and the SVO ends without observing these conditions, then in the Chechen Republic there will be volunteers, including myself, who will force the Bandera fascists and shaitans to answer for every drop of blood.

We are not going to live with this Satanism side by side. We will not allow the West, under the guise of helping Ukraine and hanging noodles about democracy, to ruin our great country and consign our traditions and faith in the Almighty to oblivion. And if the remaining Ukrainians lack the courage to admit it and kick the NATO military out of the country, then we can. Be calm, we have enough volunteers, weapons and enthusiasm to carry out the order of the Supreme Commander and discourage the Satanists from opposing Russia.
By the way, Ukrainians, ask yourself the question: why do NATO troops almost always successfully leave the battlefield, while the mobilized are captured or killed?

Lol at nothing complicated. We just want you to give up your land that we stole, and get rid of the people who fought back against us while we stole the land.

Interesting that they have already dropped the Satanist argument and are back on the Nazi rhetoric.

 

[KB5252]

Ridiculous conditions for negotiations with the leadership of Ukraine. If Zelensky had been worried about his mobilized pensioners, he would not have used the word "conditions", but would have knelt for his people, as he defiantly knelt for the sake of his election as president.

The Ukrainian authorities are in the wrong position to dictate terms. We have our own conditions and they are much more realistic:
- Recognition of the LPR, DPR, Zaporozhye, Kherson, Crimea and Sevastopol as Russian;
- The extradition of all fascist criminals and shaitans responsible for the atrocities against the Russian-speaking population, or an official trial of them and a well-deserved restriction of freedom.

As you can see, nothing complicated, unlike Zelensky's conditions. But the war will end.
Until then, I personally consider it unacceptable to even stutter about negotiations.
And I want to remind you that if the impossible suddenly happens and the SVO ends without observing these conditions, then in the Chechen Republic there will be volunteers, including myself, who will force the Bandera fascists and shaitans to answer for every drop of blood.

We are not going to live with this Satanism side by side. We will not allow the West, under the guise of helping Ukraine and hanging noodles about democracy, to ruin our great country and consign our traditions and faith in the Almighty to oblivion. And if the remaining Ukrainians lack the courage to admit it and kick the NATO military out of the country, then we can. Be calm, we have enough volunteers, weapons and enthusiasm to carry out the order of the Supreme Commander and discourage the Satanists from opposing Russia.
By the way, Ukrainians, ask yourself the question: why do NATO troops almost always successfully leave the battlefield, while the mobilized are captured or killed?

You know what's even more ridiculous? Negotiating terms that carve up more land in addition to what they've already attempted to take by force. Especially considering the world is watched them take other's land by force. You know it's only a matter of time before they want more.

This is Ukraine's only option aside from capitulation. Russia has dictated these terms, not Ukraine.

Russia has just assured themselves of NATO presence on their front porch. It may not happen today, tomorrow or next month but Ukraine could very well end up a NATO member down the road.

 

[AM64]

That HIMARS none game changer not gonna be a Russian bogeyman for generations to come doing work:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWar...rsonell_inspecting_their_kamaz_hit_by_himars/

Whiners. They just need a truckload of Bondo and a buffer. You really gotta love the boogeyman we've given them to think about.

Seems like we are learning a lot about new weaponry and new tactics in this war. There are some dramatic changes in weaponry (and tactics that have to be adapted to compensate) that you don't want to experience first hand as the guinea pig. Where a lot of people see it as unnecessary expense; our support is buying us a lot of knowledge - a blessing in disguise.

 

[AM64]

Lol at nothing complicated. We just want you to give up your land that we stole, and get rid of the people who fought back against us while we stole the land.

Interesting that they have already dropped the Satanist argument and are back on the Nazi rhetoric.

A lot of this rhetoric goes back to what we saw from the Soviets before and during the Cold War. They just announce stupid BS and everybody is supposed to take it as gospel. It's always been part of the KGB propaganda mill where Pootin was hatched. Probably because of the number of nukes both sides had pointed at teach other, nobody really told the Russians back in the USSR to STFU. We're doing the same with the Chinese now instead of telling them to crawl back into their hole - probably because we've made them Walmart and financed a huge (perhaps modern - see Russian stuff first) military for them. Maybe the point is that if you've been successful at selling people the crock of schiff known as communism, then you would believe you can sell anybody anything.