War in Ukraine

[AM64]

There’s a good reason why the B52, C130 and A10 haven’t been put out to pasture just yet.

I saw an article about the C-130 a couple of days ago. Hard to believe they entered service in 1956. One of those planes that will last as long and be as versatile as the C-47 - just bigger and can handle more. The article said it was developed because the Korean War showed we needed something better for moving cargo. The one that still surprises me considering the size and structural loading is the B-52. I saw those at Dow AFB, ME when my dad was stationed there in the late 1950s and then again flying bombing missions over Vietnam from Kadena AFB on Okinawa. Now they are getting new engines and a "new life". I'm wondering when the AF is going to figure out they don't have a replacement for the A-10. Of course, not being the guys on the ground makes the close air support assessment a lot easier ... "yeah, this should work just fine from 10K ft with a lot of speed."

 

[AM64]

And it's also why the F22 Raptor and the FA18 super hornet will continue flying for a long, long time. The F16 is still flying around too. You don't scrap good stuff, especially when you have the best pilots in the world to operate it. That is the main difference. U.S. pilots are hands down the best.

What's likely to do in the F-22 is the numbers - at some point attrition will make it unreasonable to keep in the air; there weren't enough built before the production was scrapped. The F-15 should probably be in your list, too.

 

[norrislakevol]

What's likely to do in the F-22 is the numbers - at some point attrition will make it unreasonable to keep in the air; there weren't enough built before the production was scrapped. The F-15 should probably be in your list, too.

The F15 Strike Eagle is a remarkable plane. I have always wondered their long term future. Got the privilege to see s couple flying not too long ago. I was surprised at their great size when I saw them flying in person.

 

[IluvdoubleD's]

bbc investigated the claims of russians refusing to fight. Ukraine war: The Russians locked up for refusing to fight

 

[FLVOL_79]

bbc investigated the claims of russians refusing to fight. Ukraine war: The Russians locked up for refusing to fight

Another snippet that shows how bad Russias command and control is. Its almost like they are relying on WW1 tactics/leadership. All Ukraine needs to keep doing is target Russian command and control in occupied areas. Take those out and its already been proven Russians lose all combat effectiveness.

 

[hog88]

I saw an article about the C-130 a couple of days ago. Hard to believe they entered service in 1956. One of those planes that will last as long and be as versatile as the C-47 - just bigger and can handle more. The article said it was developed because the Korean War showed we needed something better for moving cargo. The one that still surprises me considering the size and structural loading is the B-52. I saw those at Dow AFB, ME when my dad was stationed there in the late 1950s and then again flying bombing missions over Vietnam from Kadena AFB on Okinawa. Now they are getting new engines and a "new life". I'm wondering when the AF is going to figure out they don't have a replacement for the A-10. Of course, not being the guys on the ground makes the close air support assessment a lot easier ... "yeah, this should work just fine from 10K ft with a lot of speed."

The A-10 and CAS in general need to be moved to the Army and out of the purview of the AF. Should have happened decades ago.

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[FLVOL_79]

The A-10 and CAS in general need to be moved to the Army and out of the purview of the AF. Should have happened decades ago.

So you want them to not fly?
Army aviation is a sh!t show. I remember some medivac Blackhawk pilots asking me what I was inputting into out pave hawks. I said "IFF" codes. They said "oh we never use those".....

I was like "you know we are in a war zone right"?...got crickets from em.

 

[LouderVol]

And you believe it’s not? Because you turn around and admit just that in your second sentence. The UA is an absolute de facto of NATO…mercenaries, weapons, training and logistics.

15-20 Russian divisions will be moving into Eastern Ukraine within a couple of months…already commenced. Sans NATO outright declaring war on Russia, a proxy army will stand little chance.

You mean a further 15-20 divisions. And for the second half of the fighting it's clear Ukraine easily had the upper hand, so it's not like Ukraine is just scraping to survive. They mounted an incredibly effective counter attack, and even retook Kherson without fighting. So that also says Russia was in trouble.

And lol at the continued narrative that Russia is fighting NATO. That's laughable at best. Next time someone invades Afghanistan are they going to be fighting the US? Cause we gave them far more weapons than we have given Ukraine. *so far at least*

We arent running logistics in Ukraine. Big difference.

We arent giving Ukraine all our shiny weapons, big difference. NATO has been clearing out obsolete stock and Ukraine has been tearing Russia up to the tune of needing 20 new divisions. No long range missiles, no Abrams, warthogs, aircraft. Russia hasnt even faced the full arsenal of weapons NATO has. That would be a monumental change once the west got involved.

Oh yeah, I forgot, Russia blows up the vast majority of the west's weapons as they enter the country and most never see combat, so how much is really fighting Russia, right comrade?

At the very least NATO's airforce would change the war in a month. Russia already cant protect airbases less than 200 miles from Moscow. What do you think happens when our strategic bombers, stealth bombers and fighters start showing up?

Clearly since Ukraine was talking about training large numbers of their troops during the winter, their army isnt fully western trained.

The fighting NATO argument is pure copium. Pure unadulterated copium. Just like Russia would never invade, just like Russia would win in a week, and just like the locals would heavily support Russia. You guys get the major pieces wrong. Russia has been in the wrong on the stuff that actually matters from day 1. Fighting NATO is just the next 1.

 

[LouderVol]

Smack?

Possibly…but if you think Russia isn’t equipped to fight a war of attrition, you’re misled. Mercenaries now make up a significant proportion of the Ukrainian front lines.

Wagner.....
Chechens......
And those are just the named ones.

 

[LouderVol]

Yeah they love Bandera as much as they do Zelensky around here.

So much so that only you Russians ever bring him up.

I know I know road names and statues, BLM will be so proud of Putin for killing 100,000s to change some names.

 

[LouderVol]

PR wins aren’t gonna win this war..

It won the winter war for Finland.

 

[hog88]

So you want them to not fly?
Army aviation is a sh!t show. I remember some medivac Blackhawk pilots asking me what I was inputting into out pave hawks. I said "IFF" codes. They said "oh we never use those".....

I was like "you know we are in a war zone right"?...got crickets from em.

I agree that Army aviation needs improvement but A-10s and AC-130s would be much more effective under the control of the ground commanders of the Army. Let the AF do what they do best which is air dominance and bombing.

 

[LouderVol]

Man this thread is absolute comedic gold. I never thought people whom I always held as rational people have become such gullible sheep and in complete support of a fascist dictator who has increased his wealth a ton off the backs of US taxpayers. Keep bootlicking Zelenskys corrupt sack you rubes. All the while he is getting fat and happy by stealing our money.

Please quote 1 person extolling Zelensky's virtues?

There is a difference in being Pro-someone, and anti-someone's enemy.

Strangely fascism was in decline in Ukraine after the Russian was ran out. And the only fascism going on now came about AFTER they were invaded, when Ukraine was on war footing. Everyone has different laws while at war. If Russia was really concerned, or if you posters were, you would support peace, including Russia leaving, so that Ukraine could remove its war time conditions.

And oh yeah, you just so happen to forget all the fascism on the Russian side.

In my book it looks like fascism vs fascism. Let them beat themselves bloody.

 

[AM64]

The A-10 and CAS in general need to be moved to the Army and out of the purview of the AF. Should have happened decades ago.

My dad always thought the AF failed to really support the CAS role. He flew P-47s in France and Germany late in WW2 - sometime after D Day. We never discussed it much, but it was obviously ground attack on their part.

 

[LouderVol]

We clearly support the oppression of the Chinese people by it's gov. We support the prosecution of opposing political ideology. Our national police force and intelligence agency pushes political views and the suppression of free speech. There's a plethora of documented proof of this. Our elections are a complete sham. The list goes on and on. Please explain how our gov. is not just as corrupt as Russia's, if not more.

None of our leaders have rewritten our constitution to stay in power and to give himself more power.
We havent nationalized various industries to make our incredibly rich oligarchs even richer.
Our leaders havent bastardized religion, even more, to the point of using it to prop up their political support in this country.
Depending on where you fall on the Killary narrative, we dont have our political opposition openly murdered or jailed.

And that doesnt even get into the discussion of degrees.

 

[AM64]

I agree that Army aviation needs improvement but A-10s and AC-130s would be much more effective under the control of the ground commanders of the Army. Let the AF do what they do best which is air dominance and bombing.

The AF has always had problems with internal competition from different combat groupings seeking to dominate funding and manpower. For years it was SAC (bombers), TAC (tactical air), and ADC (air defense) seeking to dominate. The names have changed, but the struggle remains. If you think about it, there are some really strange outgrowths. The F-16 which should have been an agile air superiority fighter wound up carrying bombs, and the F-15 which would have made a better weapons platform (if you had to do that to either of them) became the air superiority fighter - until the family version (F-15E) came along. The A-10 was the unwanted ugly duckling that no bomber pilot would want to fly and fighter pilots wanted to ignore - both the plane and the role. It's almost like the rest of the AF had to change the F-16's role and pretend the A-10 didn't exist to purge the good John Boyd did.

The AF needs a real good case of KISS; everybody better hope the F-35 works out because it's looking doubtful (reliability), and there's not much of a backup once the AF dumps a lot of the planes it is "replacing".

 

[FLVOL_79]

I agree that Army aviation needs improvement but A-10s and AC-130s would be much more effective under the control of the ground commanders of the Army. Let the AF do what they do best which is air dominance and bombing.

Thats why we have TACP inserted into ground units.

Gotta keep things simple for the army folks. Thats why their technical books for aviation are written like comic books...

 

[Velo Vol]

Ouch, if true.

 

[hog88]

None of our leaders have rewritten our constitution to stay in power and to give himself more power.
We havent nationalized various industries to make our incredibly rich oligarchs even richer.
Our leaders havent bastardized religion, even more, to the point of using it to prop up their political support in this country.
Depending on where you fall on the Killary narrative, we dont have our political opposition openly murdered or jailed.

And that doesnt even get into the discussion of degrees.

The 17th amendment dis just that.

Also we do have quite a history of nationalization.

Nationalization Is as American as Apple Pie

 

[hog88]

Thats why we have TACP inserted into ground units.

Gotta keep things simple for the army folks. Thats why their technical books for aviation are written like comic books...

TACP and Combat Controllers do a masterful job, it's the pilots and Air Commanders that **** everything up.

 

[LouderVol]

Banning political parties and churches, arresting priests and since 2014 killing civilians in the Donbass. Sounds like there's been even more corruption right now and the last decade over there in Bandera Land.

Man. None of that was an issue until Russia got involved. Its almost like Russia is the cause of all Ukraine's problems and the current situation we find ourselves in.

 

[DonjoVol]

Man. None of that was an issue until Russia got involved. Its almost like Russia is the cause of all Ukraine's problems and the current situation we find ourselves in.

Actually the United States and EU interfered first. So it would be reasonable to say that they are the cause of Ukraine's problems. There is more than enough evidence of U.S. and EU involvement before 2014.

 

[C/O]

I believe Russia operates under the mantra of ‘once is an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is a pattern.’

They are still entitled to one more occupation of a former Soviet state before the rest of the world needs to worry.

 

[Pacer92]

You mean a further 15-20 divisions. And for the second half of the fighting it's clear Ukraine easily had the upper hand, so it's not like Ukraine is just scraping to survive. They mounted an incredibly effective counter attack, and even retook Kherson without fighting. So that also says Russia was in trouble.

And lol at the continued narrative that Russia is fighting NATO. That's laughable at best. Next time someone invades Afghanistan are they going to be fighting the US? Cause we gave them far more weapons than we have given Ukraine. *so far at least*

We arent running logistics in Ukraine. Big difference.

We arent giving Ukraine all our shiny weapons, big difference. NATO has been clearing out obsolete stock and Ukraine has been tearing Russia up to the tune of needing 20 new divisions. No long range missiles, no Abrams, warthogs, aircraft. Russia hasnt even faced the full arsenal of weapons NATO has. That would be a monumental change once the west got involved.

Oh yeah, I forgot, Russia blows up the vast majority of the west's weapons as they enter the country and most never see combat, so how much is really fighting Russia, right comrade?

At the very least NATO's airforce would change the war in a month. Russia already cant protect airbases less than 200 miles from Moscow. What do you think happens when our strategic bombers, stealth bombers and fighters start showing up?

Clearly since Ukraine was talking about training large numbers of their troops during the winter, their army isnt fully western trained.

The fighting NATO argument is pure copium. Pure unadulterated copium. Just like Russia would never invade, just like Russia would win in a week, and just like the locals would heavily support Russia. You guys get the major pieces wrong. Russia has been in the wrong on the stuff that actually matters from day 1. Fighting NATO is just the next 1.

So, you admitted the west was involved initially and now are trying to say they’re just handing over old weapons with cobwebs on them…nothing shiny and new…cherry picking a few items to try and make a point. The list of advanced American/western weapons in Ukraine is extensive and far from obsolete.

NATO is absolutely calling the shots in Ukraine…militarily and politically. Western mercenaries are falling everyday, including Americans…the latest, a female combat medic from Knoxville, Tn. just yesterday.

Ukraine has had 8 years of western training, so that tells me that a lot of what was trained, isn’t there anymore. They’re exhausting thousands a week…it’s simple math.