War in Ukraine

#52,876
#52,876
Rasputin_Vol said:
So you have no numbers on either side... but your gut (and the MSM) tells you that Russia will lose more.

Okay
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So where are your numbers that tell you Russia has fewer losses? I would LOVE to see an official or semi-official report from Russia on their losses.

Because "officially" they havent updated anything since like April and are officially sitting at around 3500 casualties.
 
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#52,880
#52,880
hog88 said:
The 17th amendment dis just that.

Also we do have quite a history of nationalization.

Nationalization Is as American as Apple Pie
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Interesting that giving people more things to vote on is considered corruption. I see it is a change in the original constitution, but it went through the proper channels.

The vast majority of those listed nationalizations were of infradtructure/utilities, and/or usually during war for war purposes. I have already stated that any country is going to have to work differently during war than it can during peace. And at least of the examples given they were reprivatized at the end of the war without issue.

The rest seem like limited nationalization after a bailout, and I know that at least some of those have come back to be pure privately held. The rest probably were too I just cant even pretend to keep up with all the cases.
 
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#52,881
#52,881
LouderVol said:
Please quote 1 person extolling Zelensky's virtues?

There is a difference in being Pro-someone, and anti-someone's enemy.

Strangely fascism was in decline in Ukraine after the Russian was ran out. And the only fascism going on now came about AFTER they were invaded, when Ukraine was on war footing. Everyone has different laws while at war. If Russia was really concerned, or if you posters were, you would support peace, including Russia leaving, so that Ukraine could remove its war time conditions.

And oh yeah, you just so happen to forget all the fascism on the Russian side.

In my book it looks like fascism vs fascism. Let them beat themselves bloody.
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Ukraine has a long history of supporting fascism/nazi ideology. It did not just start after the invasion…to the contrary…deeply rooted going back to before WW2.

We supported peace…as did Putin. It’s out in the open now, thanks to Angela Merkel, that the Minsk agreements were only used as a ploy by the west to give more time to build up the readiness of Ukraine’s military.
 
#52,883
#52,883
DonjoVol said:
Actually the United States and EU interfered first. So it would be reasonable to say that they are the cause of Ukraine's problems. There is more than enough evidence of U.S. and EU involvement before 2014.
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This is laughable on its face. It is literally impossible for anyone besides Russia to do anything in Ukraine before Russia did it. Even in this most recent of versions. Ukraine literally had to split itself off of Russia, it came from being a Russian puppet. This would be like saying the Germans were the first to interfere in South African politics back in the 1930s and 40s, only if you forget their colonizer.

Oh you mean like their president fleeing to Russia and living it up in a russian mansion?
Or do you mean like that same president running on pro western promises, and then breaking them at the last minute?
Or maybe you mean all those little green men showing up and kicking out local governments before anyone thought the word independence?
Oh wait maybe you mean that president who now sits in the lap of luxury in Russia, having his political opponent locked up for saying he should be more pro western?
 
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#52,884
#52,884
Pacer92 said:
So, you admitted the west was involved initially and now are trying to say they’re just handing over old weapons with cobwebs on them…nothing shiny and new…cherry picking a few items to try and make a point. The list of advanced American/western weapons in Ukraine is extensive and far from obsolete.

NATO is absolutely calling the shots in Ukraine…militarily and politically. Western mercenaries are falling everyday, including Americans…the latest, a female combat medic from Knoxville, Tn. just yesterday.

Ukraine has had 8 years of western training, so that tells me that a lot of what was trained, isn’t there anymore. They’re exhausting thousands a week…it’s simple math.
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When did I say we werent giving them weapons, or even training? This is just another strawman. My argument is that it doesnt mean Russia is fighting NATO just because of some training or equipment.

And which is it? Is Russia fighting NATO equipment in substantial numbers, or is Russia blowing most of it up at the border, or what happened to the weapons being sold off on the black market? Seems like between Russian destruction of the shipments and Ukrainian corruption there wouldnt be enough left to fight Russia. But here you are, talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Thousands a week of their super western trained NATO mercenary death cult NAZI troops? Yeah no. Simply because there was never that many of them to lose. Not sure how many there were, but it's not over 100k. The western trained guys are their special forces, so unless you think they have ONLY lost these specially trained guys your argument doesnt hold water.

I wont shed a tear for mercs or either side. They are doing what they are being paid for. They have the easiest out.

And was shooting up Poland part of that US decision making? This is why I enjoy your guys conspiracies. They go so overboard with how much power you think we have, it's easy to find examples where we clearly dont have the power. Zelensky was calling for our intervention, seems like if we were controlling him he would k ow we would oust the attacks as his and not Russias.

Or what about Zelensky asking for more money? Seems like if we were in charge we would give it without asking? That way it's not in the public eye. Or if you want to argue we tell him to ask for money, why dont we tell him to ask for the amount we are actually going to provide?

You guys always go for these super complicated, twisting explanations when the simple logical answer is sitting right in front of you. We arent in control. Of any of it. We are being just as reactionary as we are to every event.
 
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#52,885
#52,885
Pacer92 said:
Ukraine has a long history of supporting fascism/nazi ideology. It did not just start after the invasion…to the contrary…deeply rooted going back to before WW2.

We supported peace…as did Putin. It’s out in the open now, thanks to Angela Merkel, that the Minsk agreements were only used as a ploy by the west to give more time to build up the readiness of Ukraine’s military.
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What? Diplomacy was used as a means of buying time? That's never happened before, and is surely the key piece in proving your incredibly Russian stances.

Everybody has a history of supporting fascism and nazis. Even Russia. Ukraine have an even longer history of supporting ANYONE that was anti-Russia.

And with such deep found history with Nazism I would expect the amount of local politicians with that voting alignment to increase as there were fewer Russians. Not decrease as we have seen. And maybe churn up a majority, somewhere, anywhere. And not elect a Jew.
 
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#52,886
#52,886
Pacer92 said:
Ukraine has a long history of supporting fascism/nazi ideology. It did not just start after the invasion…to the contrary…deeply rooted going back to before WW2.

We supported peace…as did Putin. It’s out in the open now, thanks to Angela Merkel, that the Minsk agreements were only used as a ploy by the west to give more time to build up the readiness of Ukraine’s military.
Click to expand...

Many in Ukraine were happy to see the Nazi invasion because they had just went through the famine imposed upon them by Stalin's regime. It was a "anyone is better than Stalin" mentality for most of them.
 
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#52,887
#52,887
Pacer92 said:
Ukraine has a long history of supporting fascism/nazi ideology. It did not just start after the invasion…to the contrary…deeply rooted going back to before WW2.

We supported peace…as did Putin. It’s out in the open now, thanks to Angela Merkel, that the Minsk agreements were only used as a ploy by the west to give more time to build up the readiness of Ukraine’s military.
Click to expand...
Had Russia not broken their obligations per the Budapest Agreement and invaded Ukraine there wound have been no need for any of the Minsk agreements. This all starts with Russia invading Ukraine and actively arming and backing the insurgents and that isn’t even debatable.
 
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#52,888
#52,888
NorthDallas40 said:
Had Russia not broken their obligations per the Budapest Agreement and invaded Ukraine there wound have been no need for any of the Minsk agreements. This all starts with Russia invading Ukraine and actively arming and backing the insurgents and that isn’t even debatable.
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That is exactly the rationale that their boogeyman Bandera used. Hitler was literally better than Stalin.
 
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#52,890
#52,890
DonjoVol said:
Actually the United States and EU interfered first. So it would be reasonable to say that they are the cause of Ukraine's problems. There is more than enough evidence of U.S. and EU involvement before 2014.
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Nothing absolves Russia from their commitments on the Budapest Agreement and justifies them invading Ukraine Curly. That’s some top notch dumbass shill excuse making 🤡
 
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#52,891
#52,891
LouderVol said:
When did I say we werent giving them weapons, or even training? This is just another strawman. My argument is that it doesnt mean Russia is fighting NATO just because of some training or equipment.

And which is it? Is Russia fighting NATO equipment in substantial numbers, or is Russia blowing most of it up at the border, or what happened to the weapons being sold off on the black market? Seems like between Russian destruction of the shipments and Ukrainian corruption there wouldnt be enough left to fight Russia. But here you are, talking out of both sides of your mouth.

Thousands a week of their super western trained NATO mercenary death cult NAZI troops? Yeah no. Simply because there was never that many of them to lose. Not sure how many there were, but it's not over 100k. The western trained guys are their special forces, so unless you think they have ONLY lost these specially trained guys your argument doesnt hold water.

I wont shed a tear for mercs or either side. They are doing what they are being paid for. They have the easiest out.

And was shooting up Poland part of that US decision making? This is why I enjoy your guys conspiracies. They go so overboard with how much power you think we have, it's easy to find examples where we clearly dont have the power. Zelensky was calling for our intervention, seems like if we were controlling him he would k ow we would oust the attacks as his and not Russias.

Or what about Zelensky asking for more money? Seems like if we were in charge we would give it without asking? That way it's not in the public eye. Or if you want to argue we tell him to ask for money, why dont we tell him to ask for the amount we are actually going to provide?

You guys always go for these super complicated, twisting explanations when the simple logical answer is sitting right in front of you. We arent in control. Of any of it. We are being just as reactionary as we are to every event.
Click to expand...

Straw man?! It’s the same logic you guys used when Kiev was fighting Luhansk/Donetsk oblast up until the invasion…that it was actually Russian “little green men” in East Ukraine? Now, it’s no NATO involvement, just the funneling weapons in? Can’t have it both ways..

Zelensky is a puppet. Nothing more than a face for a “movement”. That’s why he doesn’t propose peace…he just does what the masters order. Money is the reason..
 
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#52,892
#52,892
NorthDallas40 said:
Had Russia not broken their obligations per the Budapest Agreement and invaded Ukraine there wound have been no need for any of the Minsk agreements. This all starts with Russia invading Ukraine and actively arming and backing the insurgents and that isn’t even debatable.
Click to expand...

One side staged a coup. The other side “staged” a referendum…..geopolitics.
 
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#52,893
#52,893
hog88 said:
Many in Ukraine were happy to see the Nazi invasion because they had just went through the famine imposed upon them by Stalin's regime. It was a "anyone is better than Stalin" mentality for most of them.
Click to expand...

I get that…and went underground for decades after WW2.
 
#52,894
#52,894
Pacer92 said:
Straw man?! It’s the same logic you guys used when Kiev was fighting Luhansk/Donetsk oblast up until the invasion…that it was actually Russian “little green men” in East Ukraine? Now, it’s no NATO involvement, just the funneling weapons in? Can’t have it both ways..

Zelensky is a puppet. Nothing more than a face for a “movement”. That’s why he doesn’t propose peace…he just does what the masters order. Money is the reason..
Click to expand...
Be careful. Dallas, also known as Proctor, might reassign the nickname Shemp to you since LSU isn't actively posting anymore.
 
#52,896
#52,896
Pacer92 said:
Straw man?! It’s the same logic you guys used when Kiev was fighting Luhansk/Donetsk oblast up until the invasion…that it was actually Russian “little green men” in East Ukraine? Now, it’s no NATO involvement, just the funneling weapons in? Can’t have it both ways..

Zelensky is a puppet. Nothing more than a face for a “movement”. That’s why he doesn’t propose peace…he just does what the masters order. Money is the reason..
Click to expand...
Be careful. Dallas, also know as Proctor, might reassign the nickname Shemp to you since LSU isn't actively posting anymore.
 
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#52,897
#52,897
Pacer92 said:
Straw man?! It’s the same logic you guys used when Kiev was fighting Luhansk/Donetsk oblast up until the invasion…that it was actually Russian “little green men” in East Ukraine? Now, it’s no NATO involvement, just the funneling weapons in? Can’t have it both ways..

Zelensky is a puppet. Nothing more than a face for a “movement”. That’s why he doesn’t propose peace…he just does what the masters order. Money is the reason..
Click to expand...
Yeah money is the only reason... It's completely unreasonable that maybe, just maybe he, and his people dont like the Russians leading a revolt in their country, occupying their land, and killing their people. And they are holding out for a victory or peace that reunifies Ukraine. Even if you want to make Zelensky out as the bad guy you should be able to accept the power and prestige that comes from unifying Ukraine.

Wait. Is your argument that the 100k civilians involved in Maiden were "little blue men"? Or that they clandestinely replaced the entire Ukrainian "congress" in order to kick him out?
 
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#52,899
#52,899
Pacer92 said:
One side staged a coup. The other side “staged” a referendum…..geopolitics.
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LMAO the stupid ass coup again 🤡 No one side exercised the powers granted to their parliament by their constitution and threw Pootin’s lapdog out. BTW where does that lapdog live now?
 
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