War in Ukraine

#53,302
#53,302
Rasputin_Vol said:
IDGAF one way or the other. It is just a kid's game that grown ups play and get all riled up about.

I would be curios to know in 4 years how these same people in here fist pumping for the Iranians that were protesting would feel about the American team (likely) getting involved in some woke protest here when the World Cup comes...
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Ahh there you go posing questions related to people in The Matrix.

For the record, I was not one of those fist pumpers.
 
#53,312
#53,312
BreatheUT said:
Russian rocket cost about $100k

Patriot missile to shoot down a Russian rocket is about $5M

Now Russia is pounding Ukraine's infrastructure. Do we have an open checkbook to rebuild it or just continue to help fund the war?

I will do some investigation on who is doing what to help.
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I've been thinking about this kind of cost thing all along. Defense costs a lot, accurate offensive weapons are very expensive, but thug states like Russia and Iran can and do build cheap terrorist weapons to kill, maim, and destroy. The only trade off I can find is in what might be saved by a high priced defensive weapon instead of looking at it as simply the means to destroy a cheap terror threat. The real cost differential is in dealing with drones. I'm still thinking something far cheaper like super shotgun rather than expensive guided munitions until sophisticated and higher flying drones become the norm. We don't go bird hunting with rifles, and shooting down some current drones should be considered much the same.
 
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#53,313
#53,313
AM64 said:
I've been thinking about this kind of cost thing all along. Defense costs a lot, accurate offensive weapons are very expensive, but thug states like Russia and Iran can and do build cheap terrorist weapons to kill, maim, and destroy. The only trade off I can find is in what might be saved by a high priced defensive weapon instead of looking at it as simply the means to destroy a cheap terror threat. The real cost differential is in dealing with drones. I'm still thinking something far cheaper like super shotgun rather than expensive guided munitions until sophisticated and higher flying drones become the norm. We don't go bird hunting with rifles, and shooting down some current drones should be considered much the same.
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My argument is America leading this effort in the first place.

Consider every issue at work that comes across your desk or email. Is it your job to find a solution to everything or are there others in the organization more capable or in position to address or own the issue? Are you trying to do someone else's job? Ukraine is on Europe's doorstep yet many of those countries are just moving over and taking a backseat because it requires commitment.

That was one thing about DJT. NATO and European countries act like you give a damn about your own security. Show some accountability. The United States have installed so many bureaucrats over the years that are making side money that it is no longer required of European countries to lead anywhere in the world.
 
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#53,314
#53,314
AM64 said:
I've been thinking about this kind of cost thing all along. Defense costs a lot, accurate offensive weapons are very expensive, but thug states like Russia and Iran can and do build cheap terrorist weapons to kill, maim, and destroy. The only trade off I can find is in what might be saved by a high priced defensive weapon instead of looking at it as simply the means to destroy a cheap terror threat. The real cost differential is in dealing with drones. I'm still thinking something far cheaper like super shotgun rather than expensive guided munitions until sophisticated and higher flying drones become the norm. We don't go bird hunting with rifles, and shooting down some current drones should be considered much the same.
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But US/MIC costs are eye watering.
 
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#53,315
#53,315
BreatheUT said:
My argument is America leading this effort in the first place.

Consider every issue at work that comes across your desk or email. Is it your job to find a solution to everything or are there others in the organization more capable or in position to address or own the issue? Are you trying to do someone else's job? Ukraine is on Europe's doorstep yet many of those countries are just moving over and taking a backseat because it requires commitment.

That was one thing about DJT. NATO and European countries act like you give a damn about your own security. Show some accountability. The United States have installed so many bureaucrats over the years that are making side money that it is no longer required of European countries to lead anywhere in the world.
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That's the thing about competition driven cultures. They always have to get ahead, and we may be the worst of the lot. We have the military arms race that sees obsolete weapons come and go without ever being used in battle. The cost of keeping up finally bankrupted the Soviet Union. You see the same "arms race" in sports, in cars ... and whatever because we cannot reach a bound between having to be number one and what's rational. Look no further than college football with NIL and the transfer portal, or auto racing that has virtually destroyed itself in nonsensical rules aimed at keeping some semblance of control.
 
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#53,316
#53,316
I love that my taxes are going to "Ukraine", aka being funneled right back to Democrat politicians hellbent on weakening this country.

Every one of you that thought it was cool and good to involve ourselves in this proxy war are to blame.
 
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#53,319
#53,319
BreatheUT said:
The issue is if that Patriot missile doesn't shoot down the affordable rocket whether $10 or $100k then what is the human cost. Also, does the Patriot Missile system change the posture of the conflict.

It appears Russia is starting to pummel infrastructure. I haven't kept track to know what options are on the table for a peace agreement. This conflict has to be just as unpopular in Russia as the Ukraine.
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They could be protecting power plants that potentially would cost billions to replace.

Of course we could just help Ukraine send missiles to the source and start taking out bombers, subs, and bases inside of Russia.
 
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