War in Ukraine

#53,276
#53,276
VolStrom said:
Private industry is so much more efficient than the government. Private companies have a motive to make a profit, government has a motive to get a bigger budget of free money from the taxpayers. I don't care where the technology comes from, but SpaceX has made monumental strides in space flight by landing their first stage rockets and re-using them. Boeing will never do that ever, because they suck.
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There's a bit of difference. SpaceX uses their rockets to put a huge number of satellites into orbit - a means to an end (and maybe a menace to navigation); basically they developed a space oriented trucking division and benefitted from a lot of NASA pioneering. Always cheaper when someone else does the groundwork and you have a commercial application. I'm not a NASA apologist, but they were doing one time custom work, and SpaceX is doing commercial work on a repetitive basis. Let's also not forget all the technology that SpaceX has at it's fingertips vs what was available in the 50s and 60s when things like the Saturn rockets were being developed. Those factors and others change the cost equation immensely. I won't argue with you about Boeing, though.

Another issue that we aren't addressing is the expensive infrastructure to keep the nation running. One new nuclear plant since the 80s (and it's not operating yet), no new refineries since the 70s? Largely it seems because private industry isn't interested in investing in expensive long lead projects. Private industry shows a willingness to profit when the path is clear and short, but seems to want to sit on it's collective butt when the path isn't certain and they know someone else (like .gov) will eventually have to do the groundwork - or pay them like Boeing to do it.
 
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#53,277
#53,277
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#53,279
#53,279
AM64 said:
There's a bit of difference. SpaceX uses their rockets to put a huge number of satellites into orbit - a means to an end (and maybe a menace to navigation); basically they developed a space oriented trucking division and benefitted from a lot of NASA pioneering. Always cheaper when someone else does the groundwork and you have a commercial application. I'm not a NASA apologist, but they were doing one time custom work, and SpaceX is doing commercial work on a repetitive basis. Let's also not forget all the technology that SpaceX has at it's fingertips vs what was available in the 50s and 60s when things like the Saturn rockets were being developed. Those factors and others change the cost equation immensely. I won't argue with you about Boeing, though.

Another issue that we aren't addressing is the expensive infrastructure to keep the nation running. One new nuclear plant since the 80s (and it's not operating yet), no new refineries since the 70s? Largely it seems because private industry isn't interested in investing in expensive long lead projects. Private industry shows a willingness to profit when the path is clear and short, but seems to want to sit on it's collective butt when the path isn't certain and they know someone else (like .gov) will eventually have to do the groundwork - or pay them like Boeing to do it.
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I take it you retired from a government contractor? Boeing is a government contractor that has sucked the government dry for decades and has become a useless shell of a company run by bean counters. I'm sorry, but almost every government leach is a huge problem and it needs to stop.
 
#53,281
#53,281
VolStrom said:
I take it you retired from a government contractor? Boeing is a government contractor that has sucked the government dry for decades and has become a useless shell of a company run by bean counters. I'm sorry, but almost every government leach is a huge problem and it needs to stop.
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No. I did work one summer in college for the contractor that did most of the work at Arnold AFB though. I appreciate what you are getting at, but private industry isn't always the answer - private industry generally isn't interested in one off or extremely expensive limited runs ... unless the government or somebody else backs it and makes it worthwhile for them. Boeing seems pretty competitive in the commercial aircraft business, so they do apparently know how to operate when there's a well defined business opportunity. Military hardware is rarely well defined ... if it is, it seems like Jules Verne was writing the tech specs.
 
#53,285
#53,285
AM64 said:
Deindustrialization in the world was kicked off when a bunch of short sighted people in countries with higher labor rates and standards of living decided that globalization was a great idea. Europe is just as guilty as the US for the growth of industry in China and elsewhere and the loss of industry in their own countries. Perhaps the people at the top (corporate, investment, and politics) driven by greed understood the consequences - a lot of other non-thinking people just thought globalization was a great idea - some for the promise of cheap goods, some for "free" trade, and some for "social justice" (or whatever their BS rationale was).
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Uh oh. These Ukrainiacs don't like it when you condemn their beloved global world order. You might get called a socialist for that. They even think Eisenhower is a socialist.
 
#53,289
#53,289
hog88 said:
USSR took a bunch of Nazi scientists back to the motherland too.
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I dated a girl from Huntsville many years ago. Her father was one of the Nazi rocket scientists brought over with Von Braun. Classic humorless german engineer. As soon as he hit retirement age he packed up the wife and went back to Germany. You could tell he hated the US even after living here for decades. Totally unwilling to talk about the war. Once he learned of my plan to go into the military after college I don't think he ever said more than 5 words to me.

I found out about the move back to Germany through a business client who was selling his company that worked closely with NASA. After he mentioned his Huntsville activities I asked if he knew the father. He did and didn't want to say much. I got the feeling the father was an unrepentant Nazi who the other Germans didn't even like.
 
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#53,292
#53,292
Russian rocket cost about $100k

Patriot missile to shoot down a Russian rocket is about $5M

Now Russia is pounding Ukraine's infrastructure. Do we have an open checkbook to rebuild it or just continue to help fund the war?

I will do some investigation on who is doing what to help.
 
#53,296
#53,296
BreatheUT said:
Russian rocket cost about $100k

Patriot missile to shoot down a Russian rocket is about $5M

Now Russia is pounding Ukraine's infrastructure. Do we have an open checkbook to rebuild it or just continue to help fund the war?

I will do some investigation on who is doing what to help.
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Some estimates actually have the cost of the drones being around $10k-30k....

So now... $1+ million to shoot down $10k drone...
 
#53,297
#53,297
Rasputin_Vol said:
Some estimates actually have the cost of the drones being around $10k-30k....

So now... $1+ million to shoot down $10k drone...
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The issue is if that Patriot missile doesn't shoot down the affordable rocket whether $10 or $100k then what is the human cost. Also, does the Patriot Missile system change the posture of the conflict.

It appears Russia is starting to pummel infrastructure. I haven't kept track to know what options are on the table for a peace agreement. This conflict has to be just as unpopular in Russia as the Ukraine.
 
#53,298
#53,298
3elensky can't address the world...

Ukraine Angry After FIFA Rejects Zelensky Request To Address World Cup Final | ZeroHedge

Are global audiences tired of hearing Ukraine's President Zelensky ask for more money? Or is it just 'Ukraine fatigue' setting in, which has already for months been observed among the American public, which explains the broader apparent waning interest in the conflict?

This week Zelensky issued a formal request for FIFA to allow him to share a message of "world peace" just before the kickoff to the World Cup final, scheduled for Sunday, but the world governing soccer body promptly rebuffed the request.
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#53,300
#53,300
BreatheUT said:
I'm curious if you think our athletes kneeling on the world stage is a good idea?
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IDGAF one way or the other. It is just a kid's game that grown ups play and get all riled up about.

I would be curious to know in 4 years how these same people in here fist pumping for the Iranians that were protesting would feel about the American team (likely) getting involved in some woke protest here when the World Cup comes...
 
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