War in Ukraine

#66,626
#66,626
Rasputin_Vol said:
"Plans love silence"
Merkavas
Russian spy dolphins
F/A-18s
Homemade drones
"shaping operations"
Spring/Summer Counteroffensive
"2nd best army in Ukraine"
11th sanctions package
F-16s
F-35s
Iron Dome
Bakhmut Holds/Fortress Bakhmut
Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant Offensive
Northern and Southwestern flanks near Artemovsk (Bakhmut)
Belgorod Offensive
Bakhmut Flanks Offensive
Bakhmut is not strategically important
"A gas station masquerading as a country"
Storm Shadow
ATACMS
MALD
"Do you want Ukraine to win?"
Game changers
"for as long as it takes"
Arrest Putin in South Africa
Moskva
James Vasquez
Depleted uranium
Shovels
Viagra to rape women
20k tons of ammo in Transnistria
"investment"
"bully"
"unprovoked"
Leopard tanks
Babushka with pickle jar
North Korean munitions
War crime tribunals
Patrick Lancaster's staged scenes
Steven Seagal is a Pootin Puppet
Banning Orthodox Priests and News Media Outlets are no big deal
These numbers come from the Ukrainian MOD so they have to be true.
Sack of Potatoes
Smooth Brain
Homer
Newsweek is GOP and Russian propaganda
Mobile crematoriums
Iranian drones
Stealing chips from washing machines/refrigerators/televisions
No fly zones/air superiority
HIMARS
North Korean troops
Finland and Sweden join NATO
Strike on Wagner Group HQ
Patriot missiles
Oil price cap
Kherson Kherson Kherson
MH-17
"f*** the EU.."
Kerch Bridge
Article 5
100k Russians dead
Institute for the Study of War
"Ruble will be rubble"
Million Man Ukrainian army
McDonalds/IKEA/Coca Cola/H&M/Louis Vuitton
Long lines at ATMs
Eggs
Russia running out of missiles/drones
Russia can't fight in winter/frostbite
Polish Mig-29s
Javelina
Azovstal "evacuation"
Stingers
40 mile caravan outside of Kyiv
Switchblade drones
Ghost of Kiev
Obese General
Kremlin Coup
Blood Cancer
Parkinsons
A-10 Warthogs
Abrams tanks
I saw it on the evening news
It must be true if it's on Twitter
100 Billion will bring Russia to its knees
Snake Island
Meat grinder
Ukrainian Nazis are no big deal
Lukashenko's breath mints
Tooth Fairy
Soviet Union still exists
Trailer Park of the world
Pootin
Pootin Stooges
Larry Moe Curly
Bradley fighting vehicles
Strykers
Challengers
"Just a few weeks of training"
Maintenance will be done in Germany
China bad
Click to expand...
3 day special military operation
Putin always wanted peace
winter is coming
gay nazis
NATO expansion is an existential threat
BRICS will replace the US dollar
NATO can’t win against Russia
Sanctions aren’t hurting
Eggs are cheap

Yada yada yada
 
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#66,627
#66,627
Rasputin_Vol said:
1. So is this the new wonder weapon/game changer?
2. So now with yet another tank platform added in with the rest of the potpourri of other tanks, how long will it take to train these tank crews? What about maintenance?
3. Are these tanks even suitable for the conditions they will see in Ukraine vs arid terrain in Israel/Lebanon?
4. Why is the West having to scour the earth for weapons? What happened to all of the weapons and gear the West had been sending in the 8 years leading up to the SMO?
5. Instead of scouring the earth and raiding dusty military stockpiles, why can't the collective NATO countries simply come together and produce new fresh weapons off the assembly lines?
Click to expand...

Didn’t call them wonder weapons but more tanks are always better than no tanks especially now Ukraine is going on the offensive.
 
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#66,628
#66,628
MG1968 said:
3 day special military operation
Putin always wanted peace
winter is coming
gay nazis
NATO expansion is an existential threat
BRICS will replace the US dollar
NATO can’t win against Russia
Sanctions aren’t hurting
Eggs are cheap

Yada yada yada
Click to expand...

Next Christmas in Kiev ... or maybe the next ...
 
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#66,631
#66,631
AM64 said:
Read a story some time ago that said Ukraine really wants the bomblets from cluster bombs to use with their drones. Ukraine and their little drones are a twist on "When things get tough, the tough get going."
Click to expand...
Whoa whoa whoa... things are getting tough for Ukraine? What are you talking about? I thought they were marching to Voronezh and Rostov to reclaim their territories (Liz Truss reference)?

AM64 said:
They've taught the world a lesson about some ways to fight on the cheap.
Click to expand...
2 things:
1. Fighting on the cheap would be Russia's military budget being roughly $60 billion a year vs the US ($80+ billion) and the rest of NATO and completely out producing them in weapons.
2. It looks like "fighting on the cheap" is essentially the ISIS strategy... if you don't have the means to win a conventional war, you resort to terrorist tactics.

AM64 said:
If Russia should somehow stumble into a win, the only thing that might keep Ukraine from having the next Viet Cong type insurgency is terrain.
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2 things:
1. What do you mean by your comment with regards to terrain? I'm genuinely interested to know what your angle is with that comment. My thinking right now for this counteroffensive is that terrain in the regions they are moving in right now was always going to be an issue. I'm just wondering right now what you are seeing.
2. Zelensky is Ngo Dinh Diem... nothing has changed my opinion on that. He will likely share the same fate.
 
#66,632
#66,632
AM64 said:
Read a story some time ago that said Ukraine really wants the bomblets from cluster bombs to use with their drones. Ukraine and their little drones are a twist on "When things get tough, the tough get going."
Click to expand...
Whoa whoa whoa... things are getting tough for Ukraine? What are you talking about? I thought they were marching to Voronezh and Rostov to reclaim their territories (Liz Truss reference)?

AM64 said:
They've taught the world a lesson about some ways to fight on the cheap.
Click to expand...
2 things:
1. Fighting on the cheap would be Russia's military budget being roughly $60 billion a year vs the US ($80+ billion) and the rest of NATO and completely out producing them in weapons.
2. It looks like "fighting on the cheap" is essentially the ISIS strategy... if you don't have the means to win a conventional war, you resort to terrorist tactics.

AM64 said:
If Russia should somehow stumble into a win, the only thing that might keep Ukraine from having the next Viet Cong type insurgency is terrain.
Click to expand...
2 things:
1. What do you mean by your comment with regards to terrain? I'm genuinely interested to know what your angle is with that comment. My thinking right now for this counteroffensive is that terrain in the regions they are moving in right now was always going to be an issue. I'm just wondering right now what you are seeing.
2. Zelensky is Ngo Dinh Diem... nothing has changed my opinion on that. He will likely share the same fate.
 
#66,635
#66,635
Burhead said:
Didn’t call them wonder weapons but more tanks are always better than no tanks especially now Ukraine is going on the offensive.
Click to expand...
Maybe not you specifically, but the general theme has been that the introduction of each new weapon is going to change the outcome of the war.

Also, why would they need more tanks? NATO spent about 8 years arming the Ukrainians and I remember seeing all of those tractors last year towing away Russian tanks in the first two months. Why are we now sending Ukraine random tanks from different countries and different shell calibers? Can you not at least admit that sending the Ukrainians a mix of tank platforms that require different shells, different maintenance needs and different ways of training to use them is unfair to the men fighting?
 
#66,637
#66,637
Burhead said:
Ukraine is getting modern weapons while Russia is digging tanks out of deep storage from the Urals that were intended to rush over NATO forces….
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How are those modern weapons holding up against those old Russian weapons? Seems like it isn't much modern weapons left to give Ukraine if NATO is having to dig around Israeli and South Korea (non-NATO members) for tanks and shells.
 
#66,644
#66,644
Rasputin_Vol said:
Whoa whoa whoa... things are getting tough for Ukraine? What are you talking about? I thought they were marching to Voronezh and Rostov to reclaim their territories (Liz Truss reference)?


2 things:
1. Fighting on the cheap would be Russia's military budget being roughly $60 billion a year vs the US ($80+ billion) and the rest of NATO and completely out producing them in weapons.
2. It looks like "fighting on the cheap" is essentially the ISIS strategy... if you don't have the means to win a conventional war, you resort to terrorist tactics.


2 things:
1. What do you mean by your comment with regards to terrain? I'm genuinely interested to know what your angle is with that comment. My thinking right now for this counteroffensive is that terrain in the regions they are moving in right now was always going to be an issue. I'm just wondering right now what you are seeing.
2. Zelensky is Ngo Dinh Diem... nothing has changed my opinion on that. He will likely share the same fate.
Click to expand...

Ukraine is flat with large exposed expanses. That makes it harder for insurgents to hit and run. There aren't any convenient borders like Cambodia or Laos adjacent to Ukraine for insurgents to use as sanctuary. Perhaps those could be overcome; but you can bet that if Russia ran the country, the old ways like the KGB would be put into play and there would always be those Ukrainians willing to trade their own for safety or privilege. I just don't see the kind of isolation favoring insurgents.

You keep going to absolutes. Of course, Ukraine is doing a lot of fighting with the help of arms supplied by NATO countries; and, yes, it would be a huge difference without the support ... a good possibility that Ukraine would have collapsed. I'm saying Ukraine has developed some good cheap adjunct methods that really make this a far different battlefield. That particularly involves the use of small drones as eyes in the sky whether to target artillery fire or to harass and demoralize troops.

Russia when it comes to producing arms is clearly the more able country when you look at Russian conquest of old Soviet states. Those states don't have the land mass, population, large standing armies, or weapons production that Russia has - the benefits of controlling the collective and owning most of the real estate. Manufacturing ability, standing army/navy, and larger population and land mass are hard to overcome - look no further than our own civil war. You'd guess the word is out to all the old soviet states to join a defense pact, militarize, or preferably both if you don't want to again be a part of what you finally escaped.
 
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#66,645
#66,645
Burhead said:
Yes, nothing in Russia's performance in Ukraine says otherwise.
Click to expand...
WOW... you really believe that? NATO cannot maintain the pace of weapons and have no production capacity anytime soon that will change the outcome. Nor do they have the numbers necessary to counter the Russians on the ground.

 
#66,647
#66,647
Burhead said:
That said if the West would have the political will to fight that war is another question.
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But you and I know they don't, so that is a big "if". Hell, is there the political will here in the US? Sure, we virtue signal with the Ukrainian flag on our Twitter handles, but watch the sentiment do a 360 (Analeena Baerbock reference) once the call for boots on the ground comes.
 
#66,649
#66,649
Rasputin_Vol said:
Can NATO win against Russia (in a conventional war, not nuclear) based on what you have seen thus far?
Click to expand...

If you mean could NATO invade and conquer Russia by conventional means, no - at least I don't think so. If you mean could NATO force Russia into a stalemate with borders back to the original position, yes. The further an army penetrated Russian soil the more vulnerable they would be both logistically and with the mass necessary to hold and take more land. It's a long long way from St Petersburg to Vladivostok ... even if you start at the ends and work toward the middle.
 
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#66,650
#66,650
AM64 said:
Ukraine is flat with large exposed expanses. That makes it harder for insurgents to hit and run.
Click to expand...
That is absolutely correct. And this was known (or should have been known) before this counteroffensive was planned. So now, why do we still see the Ukrainians marching in these open fields and being sitting ducks in these very flat lands that you are talking about? Seems dumb. Seems evil to pressure them to do that.

You see, you just revealed the truth and I know you know this... but in Donbas in the east, the Ukrainians had heavily fortified positions in these industrial/urban areas that provided plenty of cover for them to nest in. That is why it took so long for the Russians to root them out. But now, in this counteroffensive near the steppe of the Dnipre River east bank, now you have open fields that don't have hiding places.

AM64 said:
There aren't any convenient borders like Cambodia or Laos adjacent to Ukraine for insurgents to use as sanctuary.
Click to expand...

Poland and Romania to a far lesser extent.

AM64 said:
Russia when it comes to producing arms is clearly the more able country when you look at Russian conquest of old Soviet states. Those states don't have the land mass, population, large standing armies, or weapons production that Russia has - the benefits of controlling the collective and owning most of the real estate. Manufacturing ability, standing army/navy, and larger population and land mass are hard to overcome - look no further than our own civil war. You'd guess the word is out to all the old soviet states to join a defense pact, militarize, or preferably both if you don't want to again be a part of what you finally escaped.
Click to expand...
Everything you say here is true, yet you refuse to acknowledge that the US/NATO encouraged the Kyiv Regime to poke the bear anyways, in spite of the clear advantages that you point out right here. Instead of poking the bear, Ukraine could have unilaterally been able to broker a peace deal with Russia and still maintained their sovereignty. But Ukraine lost its sovereignty in 2014 after Maidan and became the 51st state or 31st member of NATO. Instead of Ukraine being able to be a bridge between the West and Russia and getting the benefits of both, the US came in and pumped them up with these crazy illusions of beating the Russians with the backing of NATO. And it simply isn't coming close to working.

It really angers me that you can say what you said here and be fully aware of the situation, but because of your ideological biases and hatred of Russians, that you would support the Ukrainians dying in industrial numbers in a war you clearly admit is unwinnable for them.... and you are in denial, again because you are ideologically driven, of the fact that NATO cannot win a (conventional) war against Russia at this moment in time because we don't have the production capacity or the political will to put boots on the ground from NATO member states. Outside of nuclear, the only other option NATO has is to convince the Poles and Baltic States to jump in, but not under the cover of NATO which might trigger Article 5.
 
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