War in Ukraine

[Rasputin_Vol]

If you mean could NATO invade and conquer Russia by conventional means, no - at least I don't think so. If you mean could NATO force Russia into a stalemate with borders back to the original position, yes. The further an army penetrated Russian soil the more vulnerable they would be both logistically and with the mass necessary to hold and take more land. It's a long long way from St Petersburg to Vladivostok ... even if you start at the ends and work toward the middle.

As they say in Missouri, show me. As of right now, I've been hearing all of this nonsense about Russia running out of weapons and the Russian economy is crashing, but meanwhile, the only ones I see scrambling for weapons and economies collapsing are these NATO countries.

 

[AM64]

That is absolutely correct. And this was known (or should have been known) before this counteroffensive was planned. So now, why do we still see the Ukrainians marching in these open fields and being sitting ducks in these very flat lands that you are talking about? Seems dumb. Seems evil to pressure them to do that.

You see, you just revealed the truth and I know you know this... but in Donbas in the east, the Ukrainians had heavily fortified positions in these industrial/urban areas that provided plenty of cover for them to nest in. That is why it took so long for the Russians to root them out. But now, in this counteroffensive near the steppe of the Dnipre River east bank, now you have open fields that don't have hiding places.



Poland and Romania to a far lesser extent.


Everything you say here is true, yet you refuse to acknowledge that the US/NATO encouraged the Kyiv Regime to poke the bear anyways, in spite of the clear advantages that you point out right here. Instead of poking the bear, Ukraine could have unilaterally been able to broker a peace deal with Russia and still maintained their sovereignty. But Ukraine lost its sovereignty in 2014 after Maidan and became the 51st state or 31st member of NATO. Instead of Ukraine being able to be a bridge between the West and Russia and getting the benefits of both, the US came in and pumped them up with these crazy illusions of beating the Russians with the backing of NATO. And it simply isn't coming close to working.

It really angers me that you can say what you said here and be fully aware of the situation, but because of your ideological biases and hatred of Russians, that you would support the Ukrainians dying in industrial numbers in a war you clearly admit is unwinnable for them.... and you are in denial, again because you are ideologically driven, of the fact that NATO cannot win a (conventional) war against Russia at this moment in time because we don't have the production capacity or the political will to put boots on the ground from NATO member states. Outside of nuclear, the only other option NATO has is to convince the Poles and Baltic States to jump in, but not under the cover of NATO which might trigger Article 5.

We just see things differently. I believe in a world with borders, and the right of a country to be safe within their borders. There was a breakup, borders got settled, Russia decided to renege. You don't get to tell your neighbor you want part of their land and apply force when the neighbor says no; to me it's that simple. Not going into the ancient history thing about where borders once were either. If there was ever a piece of land that should go back to the original owners for any number of reasons, Kaliningrad fits the bill, but I'm not seeing anybody trying to force Russia to give it up.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

You keep going to absolutes. Of course, Ukraine is doing a lot of fighting with the help of arms supplied by NATO countries; and, yes, it would be a huge difference without the support ... a good possibility that Ukraine would have collapsed. I'm saying Ukraine has developed some good cheap adjunct methods that really make this a far different battlefield. That particularly involves the use of small drones as eyes in the sky whether to target artillery fire or to harass and demoralize troops.

Or they had a peace deal that was signed last March. It would have been over in a month. But again, Ukraine has not be sovereign since 2014. And when Boris Johnson came in and 86'ed the peace deal from Turkiye, then from that point on, all of the people supporting this conflict have the blood of tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of men.

 

[AM64]

As they say in Missouri, show me. As of right now, I've been hearing all of this nonsense about Russia running out of weapons and the Russian economy is crashing, but meanwhile, the only ones I see scrambling for weapons and economies collapsing are these NATO countries.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

We just see things differently. I believe in a world with borders, and the right of a country to be safe within their borders.

Then I expect to see the same level of outrage and disdain directed at the US/NATO for Kosovo, Northeast Syria and Taiwan. If that is truly your stance, then you need to keep that same energy for those instances.

There was a breakup, borders got settled, Russia decided to renege. You don't get to tell your neighbor you want part of their land and apply force when the neighbor says no; to me it's that simple.

Well see that is the problem, it isn't just that simple. You know good and well that the US overthrowing and destabilizing a neighboring country was one thing that happened. Then the threats made since 2008 to bring Ukraine into NATO. Then the shelling and attacking of the Russian peoples in the Donbas. You choose to ignore all of that. Partly because you don't respect that other countries outside of the US, NATO and Israel have security concerns that need to be respected. Since you hold on to your Cold War biases, you still have this "America is the good guys" attitude and ignore all of the failed projects of bringing "freedom and democracy" to places like Iran, Guatemala, Chile, South Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya.

Not going into the ancient history thing about where borders once were either. If there was ever a piece of land that should go back to the original owners for any number of reasons, Kaliningrad fits the bill, but I'm not seeing anybody trying to force Russia to give it up.

The time frame that you are talking about with regards to Kaliningrad is roughly the same period when the 1991 borders of Ukraine and Moldova were established. So should Ukraine and Moldova give back their lands to Romania? Should Ukraine return Transcarpathia to Hungary? Galicia back to Poland? Novorossia back to Russia?

Also, if you are talking about Kaliningrad, are you talking about giving it back to Germany? What about Danzig? Can they get that back also?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

View attachment 557797

I was expecting an answer, not a meme. But I guess that is all you got.

 

[AM64]

I was expecting an answer, not a meme. But I guess that is all you got.

As I said we look at a situation and we come away with different views. Restating it that isn't going to change that, so why not some humor.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

As I said we look at a situation and we come away with different views. Restating it that isn't going to change that, so why not some humor.

I just don't understand how you can say you respect borders, but don't have the same position when it comes to Taiwan, NE Syria, Kosovo or, wait for it.... YOUR OWN SOUTHERN BORDER!!!

You guys give a damn more about the Russian/Ukraine border than you do the border with Mexico. Again, you are driven by ideology, not by logic/reason.

 

[AM64]

I just don't understand how you can say you respect borders, but don't have the same position when it comes to Taiwan, NE Syria, Kosovo or, wait for it.... YOUR OWN SOUTHERN BORDER!!!

You guys give a damn more about the Russian/Ukraine border than you do the border with Mexico. Again, you are driven by ideology, not by logic/reason.

I've made no bones over how I feel about illegal immigration. Put up a wall and minefields. It's not up for dispute; we own this side, and we decide who comes in - pure and simple. Taiwan belongs to Taiwan or the Nationalist Chinese, whatever the correct term is these days. Mao got China; Chiang Kai‐shek and his followers got Taiwan. I don't care enough about the other couple to quibble. Cobbling together countries of different ethnicities, religions, etc in eastern Europe was always a bad idea regardless of what Great Britain and others decided as proper diplomatic solutions. The Middle East is a cesspool - nuke and Stone Age come to mind as the only mostly peaceful solution.

 

[KB5252]

Can NATO win against Russia (in a conventional war, not nuclear) based on what you have seen thus far?

Is pigsfeet pork?

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

Taiwan belongs to Taiwan or the Nationalist Chinese, whatever the correct term is these days. Mao got China; Chiang Kai‐shek and his followers got Taiwan.

That isn't official policy of the US. You do realize that our official policy is the One China policy, right?

I don't care enough about the other couple to quibble.

Its obvious you don't care. My question is why you care about Ukraine then?

Cobbling together countries of different ethnicities, religions, etc in eastern Europe was always a bad idea regardless of what Great Britain and others decided as proper diplomatic solutions.

But yet you support this effort in Eastern Europe for us sending billions of dollars and encouraging the loss of life over the failing hopes of exhausting Russia.

The Middle East is a cesspool - nuke and Stone Age come to mind as the only mostly peaceful solution.

Now that the ME has had China moving in to bring peace, I think they will be fine. The only think left to do is to get the Americans out and get Israel in line.

And like a typical American, you would rather choose war/nukes/destruction instead of diplomacy.

 

[clarksvol00]

So wait... the Ukrainians, after two weeks, haven't even hit the first line of Russian defenses yet???

Should they have done it in three days?

 

[clarksvol00]

I was expecting an answer, not a meme. But I guess that is all you got.

Give him three days.

 

[volfanhill]

So wait... the Ukrainians, after two weeks, haven't even hit the first line of Russian defenses yet???

Reading comprehension appears to be a problem for you and the tweeter

 

[AM64]

That isn't official policy of the US. You do realize that our official policy is the One China policy, right?


Its obvious you don't care. My question is why you care about Ukraine then?


But yet you support this effort in Eastern Europe for us sending billions of dollars and encouraging the loss of life over the failing hopes of exhausting Russia.


Now that the ME has had China moving in to bring peace, I think they will be fine. The only think left to do is to get the Americans out and get Israel in line.

And like a typical American, you would rather choose war/nukes/destruction instead of diplomacy.

I can't recall ever claiming to agree with all of the US foreign policy. Just a hint: if I ever agreed with a one China policy, the one would be Taiwan.

 

[LouderVol]

Well who should I believe: Pootin or Ben Wallace and the rest of the clowns that have been saying for 15 months that Russia is running out of weapons?

Serious question

Same reason to believe your sources that have claimed the west ran out of weapons 15 months ago.

 

[Rasputin_Vol]

I can't recall ever claiming to agree with all of the US foreign policy. Just a hint: if I ever agreed with a one China policy, the one would be Taiwan.

Why? Because of your Cold War biases?

Its not about what you agree with. Its about dealing with the situation as it is. Official US police recognizes Beijing, not Taipei, as the head of One China.

 

[MontyPython]

This video depicts some of the most brutal trench fighting to date. Ukrainian SSOs in an elaborate 7 foot deep one crawling with Mobiks.

 

[TVOLS]

This video depicts some of the most brutal trench fighting to date. Ukrainian SSOs in an elaborate 7 foot deep one crawling with Mobiks.

Just saying openly it’s easy to debate and post about this war here on Volnation. Until you see videos like these that provides a different perspective. Even watching bombs, etc…. dropped on armor has nothing on these kind of videos.

 

[LouderVol]

1. So this basically kills the "Battle of Kyiv" narrative
2. They actually had a signed deal by Zelensky to not enter NATO, but BoJo ruined the deal. Meaning that the narrative about Ukraine deciding on what peace will be is false, also.

I know when I have a war winning document I make sure to not tell anyone about it until a year later.

Something about that stinks....I wonder what it is?

 

[tvolsfan]

You do realize that our official policy is the One China policy

It isn’t. Our China policy is strategic ambiguity.

 

[tvolsfan]

For someone who keeps talking about America’s China policy, Ras seems to know quite little about America’s China policy.

 

[MontyPython]

Just saying openly it’s easy to debate and post about this war here on Volnation. Until you see videos like these that provides a different perspective. Even watching bombs, etc…. dropped on armor has nothing on these kind of videos.

Absolutely terrifying.

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[LouderVol]

That isn't official policy of the US. You do realize that our official policy is the One China policy, right?

you clearly haven't actually read the One China Policy. It does not say what you are assuming it says, stop falling for the click-bait titles. The One China policy clearly states we will recognize Beijing as long as Taiwan stays separate from them. ALL of our trade deals with PRC are based on the One China policy of Taiwan being a separate entity.

In no place does the One China Policy state that Taiwan belongs to Beijing. It clearly states that we aren't making a judgement about which is the real One China, and our trade deals are based on the de-facto peace of two separate entities.