War in Ukraine

#68,126
#68,126
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Again, those who currently serve, currently train, and currently are in the position to defend us deserve more respect than that.

Previous service DOES NOT MEAN still trained.
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No disrespect at all because if you are currently serving I am the last person you should concern yourself with as it relates to respect for military. With that said in a hypothetical one on one between Jocko Willink and @SayUWantAreVOLution


I'm going with Jocko. Again with all due respect
 
#68,130
#68,130
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
You're just the kind of country American troops enjoy facing. "We've got a lot of people."

Say hi to my friend C-130 Gunship, my veterans. Have you got one of these?
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How many American military members do you think are going to fire on Americans? Thinking they are mindless robots is disrespectful.
 
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#68,132
#68,132
hog88 said:
How many American military members do you think are going to fire on Americans? Thinking they are mindless robots is disrespectful.
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How many Americans are going to fire on troops?

That's the cowards way out. If they aren't going to fight, they are not professional soldiers. If you fire on them, expect return fire. MUCH heavier fire than you probably can deliver.

Just like the police. If you fire at them, don't be surprised when they empty their weapon back at you.
 
#68,133
#68,133
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
How many Americans are going to fire on troops?

That's the cowards way out. If they aren't going to fight, they are not professional soldiers. If you fire on them, expect return fire. MUCH heavier fire than you probably can deliver.

Just like the police. If you fire at them, don't be surprised when they empty their weapon back at you.
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@SayUWantAreVOLution is Ray Epps


Let me hear you say "TOMORROW WE GOTTA GO IN THE CAPITOL!"
 
#68,134
#68,134
hog88 said:
How many American military members do you think are going to fire on Americans? Thinking they are mindless robots is disrespectful.
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God Forbid it comes to violence which requires troops and shooting as it did in the 60s and 70s but don't disrespect the guard troops who will bring it if civilians choose to bring it.

If you're expecting some kind of "moral high ground" issue to stop troops, I'd suggest you're too young to recall the 60s and 70s when guard troops routinely came within a hair's breadth of having to fire and did fire at Kent State.

It can and it has happened. I wouldn't want to be part of a rebellion facing American troops and suggesting that veterans would turn the tide for civilians vs the immense firepower of troops is just disrespectful BS.
 
#68,136
#68,136
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
God Forbid it comes to violence which requires troops and shooting as it did in the 60s and 70s but don't disrespect the guard troops who will bring it if civilians choose to bring it.

If you're expecting some kind of "moral high ground" issue to stop troops, I'd suggest you're too young to recall the 60s and 70s when guard troops routinely came within a hair's breadth of having to fire and did fire at Kent State.

It can and it has happened. I wouldn't want to be part of a rebellion facing American troops and suggesting that veterans would turn the tide for civilians vs the immense firepower of troops is just disrespectful BS.
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You are the one who is advocating the us military turn on it's citizens. Maybe it's possible that you are just a troll.
 
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#68,137
#68,137
vols40 said:
You are the one who is advocating the us military turn on it's citizens. Maybe it's possible that you are just a troll.
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Negative. I'm the one who suggested you guys are disrespectful to the military because you..... and after your last France, Canada childishness you've got some nerve calling anyone on this board a troll, BTW...... keep insisting the 2nd Amendment will work against the current US military.

It won't. No matter whether the reason is just and I would hobble out there right next to you to die OR if the military was being martialed against the citizens illegally.

I'll grant there would be desertions in both cases and it would be horrific but the military is simply too well equipped and too well trained for civilians to stand a chance.

It's disrespectful to tell anyone who trains regularly practicing any profession that "because I did that a few years ago for about 5 years" that you're ready to go one on one with them doing it. ESPECIALLY when you're not allowed anywhere near the same professional equipment.

Now make another smart remark about water or something, troll.
 
#68,138
#68,138
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
Negative. I'm the one who suggested you guys are disrespectful to the military because you..... and after your last France, Canada childishness you've got some nerve calling anyone on this board a troll, BTW...... keep insisting the 2nd Amendment will work against the current US military.

It won't. No matter whether the reason is just and I would hobble out there right next to you to die OR if the military was being martialed against the citizens illegally.

I'll grant there would be desertions in both cases and it would be horrific but the military is simply too well equipped and too well trained for civilians to stand a chance.

It's disrespectful to tell anyone who trains regularly practicing any profession that "because I did that a few years ago for about 5 years" that you're ready to go one on one with them doing it. ESPECIALLY when you're not allowed anywhere near the same professional equipment.

Now make another smart remark about water or something, troll.
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A troll screams disrespect while disrespecting a veteran by just assuming that some 18 y/o who just graduated from Paris Island would be no match for him. Are you suggesting former Special operations veterans would stand no chance simply because they aren't "more recently trained" WTF says that?
 
#68,139
#68,139
vols40 said:
A troll screams disrespect while disrespecting a veteran by just assuming that some 18 y/o who just graduated from Paris Island would be no match for him. Are you suggesting former Special operations veterans would stand no chance simply because they aren't "more recently trained" WTF says that?
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It's the equipment. I'll assume you were special ops and thanks immensely for your service but do you still have the same equipment you had?

How about comm equipment to coordinate movements? Do you think in a serious rebellion situation the military will not be monitoring cell service or kill it?

What about any recon services? What about securing ANY area, especially ammo, for any equipment you might get from deserters?

The military trains for this, as you know if you were special ops. They are very familiar with these types of scenarios and many more I can't imagine. You can.

If you're special ops, you'll be a better survivor but I'm doubting you have the same gear and I know you don't have the same resources you did while active.
 
#68,140
#68,140
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
It's the equipment. I'll assume you were special ops and thanks immensely for your service but do you still have the same equipment you had?

How about comm equipment to coordinate movements? Do you think in a serious rebellion situation the military will not be monitoring cell service or kill it?

What about any recon services? What about securing ANY area, especially ammo, for any equipment you might get from deserters?

The military trains for this, as you know if you were special ops. They are very familiar with these types of scenarios and many more I can't imagine. You can.

If you're special ops, you'll be a better survivor but I'm doubting you have the same gear and I know you don't have the same resources you did while active.
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It's kind of silly to me to talk about equipment when military logistics can't get **** where it needs to be, and when it's there, only keeps it functional because the guys using it make things work. In a fight with American citizens, you think the guys that make things work will have the same motivation to keep it going?

There's a reason our military gets bogged down in unconventional combat against farmers without the gear.
 
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#68,141
#68,141
ButchPlz said:
It's kind of silly to me to talk about equipment when military logistics can't get **** where it needs to be, and when it's there, only keeps it functional because the guys using it make things work. In a fight with American citizens, you think the guys that make things work will have the same motivation to keep it going?

There's a reason our military gets bogged down in unconventional combat against farmers without the gear.
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Besides that, I have been hearing about all these military style assault weapons that the American people have. Now I’m to believe they aren’t equivalent to the military’s rifles???
 
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#68,142
#68,142
ButchPlz said:
It's kind of silly to me to talk about equipment when military logistics can't get **** where it needs to be, and when it's there, only keeps it functional because the guys using it make things work. In a fight with American citizens, you think the guys that make things work will have the same motivation to keep it going?

There's a reason our military gets bogged down in unconventional combat against farmers without the gear.
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They did in Vietnam 50 years ago but they did pretty well against Afghans and Iraqis.

Do I think the military would be very motivated in a civil war? It depends on what's causing the issue. A full on rebellion by a state or two, including their guard equipment would be a horrible scenario but there's just too much muscle and too many resources for our military. It would be terrible, unthinkable for the country and the military but they'd put down a state or two pretty easily.

Just civilians without much gear? An unthinkable massacre. It's a complete pipe dream to think civilians stand a chance. Again, the "shock and awe" available even on a very much smaller scale than the first Gulf War would be awful.
 
#68,147
#68,147
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
They did in Vietnam 50 years ago but they did pretty well against Afghans and Iraqis.

Do I think the military would be very motivated in a civil war? It depends on what's causing the issue. A full on rebellion by a state or two, including their guard equipment would be a horrible scenario but there's just too much muscle and too many resources for our military. It would be terrible, unthinkable for the country and the military but they'd put down a state or two pretty easily.

Just civilians without much gear? An unthinkable massacre. It's a complete pipe dream to think civilians stand a chance. Again, the "shock and awe" available even on a very much smaller scale than the first Gulf War would be awful.
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For clarification purposes what did well in Afghanistan and Iraq?
 
#68,149
#68,149
SayUWantAreVOLution said:
How many Americans are going to fire on troops?

That's the cowards way out. If they aren't going to fight, they are not professional soldiers. If you fire on them, expect return fire. MUCH heavier fire than you probably can deliver.

Just like the police. If you fire at them, don't be surprised when they empty their weapon back at you.
Click to expand...
If your argument is they would have better weapons than sure. If you think they wouldn't be torn horribly then you are wrong. If the citizenry is that motivated to resist/attack you can believe a good portion of the military would agree with them.
 
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#68,150
#68,150
volfanhill said:
If your argument is they would have better weapons than sure. If you think they wouldn't be torn horribly then you are wrong. If the citizenry is that motivated to resist/attack you can believe a good portion of the military would agree with them.
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I'm not denying that but in the end that's a civil war between the military. Our equipment wouldn't be useful but the military factions would be squaring off from different bases. It's a nightmare.

If it becomes brother vs brother, neighbor vs neighbor IMO that's my personal home defense which is when I fully support the 2nd Amendment as being very useful. I'm not after guns.

I'm a realist. We can't compete as citizens against the military. It'll be a massacre UNLESS we have significant military supporters. That's all I've been saying. It's posturing and nothing more to suggest that a group of armed citizens stands a chance vs the military. At the point where the deserters square off, it's no longer a civilian battle because they'll have their chain of commands, etc and be operating as 2 opposing military forces.
 
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