War in Ukraine

#68,926
#68,926
Pepe_Silvia said:
You're the one in favor of using Ukrainians as cannon fodder so that we can defeat a country that hasn't been an actual threat to us in over 30 years.
Click to expand...

Ukrainians seem to be more than willing to fight to defend their country, they just need to the weapons to do it.

I'm more than happy to give them the weapons they need to remove the Russian invaders from their country.

Poll Shows 70 Percent Of Ukrainians Want To Fight Until Victory Over Russia

Stop trying to project your own cowardice on the rest of the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hunerwadel, tvolsfan and AM64
#68,927
#68,927
BeardedVol said:
Ukrainians seem to be more than willing to fight to defend their country, they just need to the weapons to do it.

I'm more than happy to give them the weapons they need to remove the Russian invaders from their country.

Poll Shows 70 Percent Of Ukrainians Want To Fight Until Victory Over Russia

Stop trying to project your own cowardice on the rest of the world.
Click to expand...

But the fact is that you're not giving them anything. I have absolutely no dog in this fight. You, on the other hand, seem to be invested in the fight, yet the only support you give is to post on a message board. You are not invested in the fight you claim to support. You are undoubtedly the coward in this exchange. Put boots on the ground or stfu.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rasputin_Vol
#68,928
#68,928
Pepe_Silvia said:
But the fact is that you're not giving them anything. I have absolutely no dog in this fight. You, on the other hand, seem to be invested in the fight, yet the only support you give is to post on a message board. You are not invested in the fight you claim to support. You are undoubtedly the coward in this exchange. Put boots on the ground or stfu.
Click to expand...

I've donated to several humanitarian organizations doing work in Ukraine, and participated in several crowdfunding campaigns for specific tools and gear for Ukrainian soldiers.

Why are you trying to equate support for Ukraine in their fight for survival, with direct participation in fighting?

You don't have a dog in the fight, yet here you are, incessantly crying about your fears of increased national debt because of military aid to Ukraine.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hunerwadel, volbound1700 and AM64
#68,929
#68,929
evillawyer said:
Your comrades have some amazing military minds. Send some soldiers across a flat, treeless field bunched up without armored support. Where does the motherland find leaders of such brilliance, Ras?

Click to expand...


That's an AT Stugna not a Kornet. Works on personnel just fine either way.
 
#68,931
#68,931
Pepe_Silvia said:
You're the one in favor of using Ukrainians as cannon fodder so that we can defeat a country that hasn't been an actual threat to us in over 30 years.
Click to expand...
Russia has been a threat to America in one way or another as long as I've been alive. And I was born while Stalin was in charge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MontyPython, tvolsfan, BeardedVol and 1 other person
#68,932
#68,932
OrangeBoro said:
Still wild to me so many people here think Ukraine is the good guy here. Watching these 2 corrupt leaders I feel the same way when Florida and Alabama play, can they both lose?
Click to expand...
I have used this comparison a couple times, but I always point out that Bama losing, in this case, helps us more than Florida losing does. Also Florida is the underdog
 
#68,934
#68,934
BeardedVol said:
Why not? We have unlimited funds for the DoD, we can spare some for a good cause.

Unlike you, I've been following Putin's rise to power his entire political career once he succeeded Yeltsin, and was following events in Ukraine 20 years ago.

Your ignorance is no fault but your own.
Click to expand...
No we don't. We have given up 1/9th of our military budget to Ukraine. and we haven't done anything to offset the losses at home.

Its taking money away from Americans. From either programs that could have stayed at home and actually helped us, or just not been spent and added to the next default we set ourselves up for in 2025.
 
#68,936
#68,936
LouderVol said:
No but Biden is responsible for our response. President makes the foreign policy decisions.
Click to expand...

Biden wasn't president in 2014 when Russia first invaded.

Biden also wasn't president in 2008, when Russia invaded Georgia, which set the stage for the future invasion of Ukraine.

Bush, Obama, Merkel, Sarkozy, and Hollande all share the blame for the relative inaction that led to where we are today.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64
#68,937
#68,937
LouderVol said:
No we don't. We have given up 1/9th of our military budget to Ukraine. and we haven't done anything to offset the losses at home.

Its taking money away from Americans. From either programs that could have stayed at home and actually helped us, or just not been spent and added to the next default we set ourselves up for in 2025.
Click to expand...

Sure we do. We literally spend money every budget cycle to maintain equipment sitting in the desert, and cycle out ammunition that if not used, has to be disposed of at a cost.

All the while, we are purchasing more ammunition, and upgrade or purchase more vehicles at the same time way are paying to maintain the old stocks.

How is military aid to Ukraine "taking money from Americans"?

Is military aid to given to Israel, Jordan, or Egypt "taking money from Americans"?

Which federal programs that directly benefit Americane, have seen a budget cut or been cancelled because of military aid sent to Ukraine?
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64 and Hunerwadel
#68,938
#68,938
F0-xMpWXwAActAJ
 
#68,939
#68,939
I am sorry, saying the war started in 2014 is propaganda. It started recently. The engagement prior was limited and mostly non direct Russian support for insurgents and mercenary groups. If you use that definition, than you can argue USA is on 20 wars currently around the world.

The Russian invasion in 2022 was the first full scale military operation outside of the Crimea land grab which was not militarily opposed by Ukraine.
 
#68,940
#68,940
volbound1700 said:
I am sorry, saying the war started in 2014 is propaganda. It started recently. The engagement prior was limited and mostly non direct Russian support for insurgents and mercenary groups. If you use that definition, than you can argue USA is on 20 wars currently around the world.

The Russian invasion in 2022 was the first full scale military operation outside of the Crimea land grab which was not militarily opposed by Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Agree to disagree I guess. By the agreement all parties reached in 1994 the invasion did start in 2014 as that was the first violation of Ukraine’s territorial boundaries. Our lethargy in action by three admins can’t change that salient fact.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64 and BeardedVol
#68,941
#68,941
NorthDallas40 said:
Agree to disagree I guess. By the agreement all parties reached in 1994 the invasion did start in 2014 as that was the first violation of Ukraine’s territorial boundaries. Our lethargy in action by three admins can’t change that salient fact.
Click to expand...

There was no active engagement between the militaries if Ukraine and Russia. A great historical comparison would be Japa occupying Manchuria in 1933 but the war between Japan and China did not officially start until 1937
 
#68,943
#68,943
NorthDallas40 said:
Igor Girkin is on record disagreeing. And he led the Russian insurgency.
Click to expand...

Understand but pretty much everyone last year called the Russian invasion of Ukraine the start of war. It was all over the media and the UN vote came last year. All documents cite to the 2022 invasion as the start. I think the China-Japan analogy is spot on. Some claim 1933 invasion of Manchuria as start of war but history records the Marco Polo incident in 1937 and you did not see active military fighting until 1937. Similarly, Ukrainian and Russian military units did not start actual fighting until last year.
 
#68,944
#68,944
volbound1700 said:
Understand but pretty much everyone last year called the Russian invasion of Ukraine the start of war. It was all over the media and the UN vote came last year. All documents cite to the 2022 invasion as the start. I think the China-Japan analogy is spot on. Some claim 1933 invasion of Manchuria as start of war but history records the Marco Polo incident in 1937 and you did not see active military fighting until 1937. Similarly, Ukrainian and Russian military units did not start actual fighting until last year.
Click to expand...
Sounds like a bunch of people were playing fast and loose with terminology last year then. It’s pretty clear the agreement was violated in 2014 🤷‍♂️
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64, BeardedVol and Hunerwadel
#68,945
#68,945
BeardedVol said:
Sure we do. We literally spend money every budget cycle to maintain equipment sitting in the desert, and cycle out ammunition that if not used, has to be disposed of at a cost.

All the while, we are purchasing more ammunition, and upgrade or purchase more vehicles at the same time way are paying to maintain the old stocks.

How is military aid to Ukraine "taking money from Americans"?

Is military aid to given to Israel, Jordan, or Egypt "taking money from Americans"?

Which federal programs that directly benefit Americane, have seen a budget cut or been cancelled because of military aid sent to Ukraine?
Click to expand...
Yes giving money or military aid to any other country is taking away from Americans. I don't care if its Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Japan, or some European nation in NATO. I am for cutting it all until we get our deficit under control. makes no sense to think we can help others when we can't even help our selves.

and you didn't explain how if we are giving 100 billion of our defense budget to Ukraine how we are replacing that money if the budget doesn't go up the same amount. I am willing to bet we are giving Ukraine more weapons, ammo, and equipment than would phase out in any given year, so its not a net-neutral exchange.

and I pointed how we aren't taking from other federal programs. Its called debt. we are going more and more into it. and we shouldn't be for Ukraine or any other nation. What do you think happens when we face the default again in 2025? you think all those credit score reductions aren't going to effect our nation? did you not see the hits to the stock market when this default was looming? I can tell you from first hand knowledge that several +$100 million dollar projects were scrapped because of the looming default and financial insecurity. And those were housing projects, and if I need to explain how a lack of housing is hurting this country I don't know what to tell you. We are on borrowed time, and instead of at least slowing down the deficit we have people like you cheering on as we speed up to the cliff.

and if you think it doesn't result in more taxes, as well as the indirect hits to our economy, you are pretty naïve. You think we would be hiring so many IRS agents and going after $600 Venmo accounts if we weren't hurting for money?
 
  • Like
Reactions: InVOLuntary and tbh
#68,946
#68,946
volbound1700 said:
I am sorry, saying the war started in 2014 is propaganda. It started recently. The engagement prior was limited and mostly non direct Russian support for insurgents and mercenary groups. If you use that definition, than you can argue USA is on 20 wars currently around the world.

The Russian invasion in 2022 was the first full scale military operation outside of the Crimea land grab which was not militarily opposed by Ukraine.
Click to expand...
lol, there were entire Russian divisions "on vacation" with all of the military gear, logistical support, uniforms in Ukraine in 2014 engaging with Ukrainian forces. Why do you think Putin was part of the cease fires? Because it was his troops engaged in the fighting. Plenty of body bags went into Russia carrying Russian MoD dog tags before 2022.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64, tbh and NorthDallas40
#68,947
#68,947
volbound1700 said:
Understand but pretty much everyone last year called the Russian invasion of Ukraine the start of war. It was all over the media and the UN vote came last year. All documents cite to the 2022 invasion as the start. I think the China-Japan analogy is spot on. Some claim 1933 invasion of Manchuria as start of war but history records the Marco Polo incident in 1937 and you did not see active military fighting until 1937. Similarly, Ukrainian and Russian military units did not start actual fighting until last year.
Click to expand...
there was plenty of direct fighting between China and Japan before 1937. The Mukden incident, and the attack on Shanghai were probably the two biggest direct clashes before 1937. And Japan was actively interfering with many of their skirmishes timed to weaken the RoC attacks on the PRC by drawing away troops. They also pretty consistently interfered with shipping to and from China. Its one of the reasons the US and other nations had their naval vessels in China (like the infamous USS Panay).
 
  • Like
Reactions: AM64
#68,950
#68,950
Just saw in another thread, Biden is activating reserve forces because Zelenski has asked for more troop and weapon support.

I unequivocally disagree with send troops, equipment, and money to Ukraine. Originally, Zelenski said he wanted no personnel sent to Ukraine to help. I respected that position.

This is not our war. This is not our concern. There is nothing worth accomplishing to benefit America to justify pouring money, equipment, and american lives into the region.

These are two very poor, crap-hole countries which have nothing of value to offer us and we have no business interceding.
 
  • Like
Reactions: kiddiedoc, InVOLuntary, MOOOOONEY and 1 other person
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top