War in Ukraine

#70,927
#70,927
BeardedVol said:
Russia could stop attacking Ukraine, and remove their soldiers from Ukraine's internationally-recognized borders, and the war ends.

Ukraine choosing to resist the Russian invasion, does not make them the same as the Russian invaders, and your attempt to create a false equivalence, is ridiculous at best.

www.atlanticcouncil.org

Beyond the counteroffensive: 84% of Ukrainians are ready for a long war

84% of Ukrainians reject any compromise with Russia and are ready for a long war if necessary in order to fully de-occupy their country. Most simply see no middle ground between genocide and national survival, writes Peter Dickinson.
www.atlanticcouncil.org www.atlanticcouncil.org
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I've really not had much to add to this thread but damned if it doesn't amaze me that some people are bewilderingly attracted to the idea that people defending land within their own borders, what would generally be considered "defense", are basically war mongers. It's almost like looking at a rape and thinking "Well, this would all go much smoother for her if she'd just, you know, quit struggling and just take it.". It's weird to me. Why is the aggressor stopping not considered the more peaceful outcome?
 
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#70,928
#70,928
hndog609 said:
I've really not had much to add to this thread but damned if it doesn't amaze me that some people are bewilderingly attracted to the idea that people defending land within their own borders, what would generally be considered "defense", are basically war mongers. It's almost like looking at a rape and thinking "Well, this would all go much smoother for her if she'd just, you know, quit struggling and just take it.". It's weird to me. Why is the aggressor stopping not considered the more peaceful outcome?
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The one's that aren't outright shills for Russia because they have a boner for Putin, and secretly enjoy the idea of living in an autocracy, as long as the autocrat is from their camp, fall into one of two groups:

1) Contrarians that will do or say anything as long as it's against the what a majority of their peer ascribe to, which support for Ukraine defending themselves from Russia's invasion, fits their need to "be against the thing" because it enjoys majority support from a large cross section of society.

2) Hardcore MAGAts that would literally do or say anything as long as it allows them to "own the libs/RINOs" since their cult leader has had a man-crush on Putin for decades.

Most normal people who can think logically, while they might not enjoy the fact that we are spending tax dollars to do so, don't begrudge the fact that Ukraine is in the right to defend themselves from Russia's genocidal invasion of their country.
 
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#70,930
#70,930
BeardedVol said:
The one's that aren't outright shills for Russia because they have a boner for Putin, and secretly enjoy the idea of living in an autocracy, as long as the autocrat is from their camp, fall into one of two groups:

1) Contrarians that will do or say anything as long as it's against the what a majority of their peer ascribe to, which support for Ukraine defending themselves from Russia's invasion, fits their need to "be against the thing" because it enjoys majority support from a large cross section of society.

2) Hardcore MAGAts that would literally do or say anything as long as it allows them to "own the libs/RINOs" since their cult leader has had a man-crush on Putin for decades.

Most normal people who can think logically, while they might not enjoy the fact that we are spending tax dollars to do so, don't begrudge the fact that Ukraine is in the right to defend themselves from Russia's genocidal invasion of their country.
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I agree with your summation of the two basic modes of thought here regarding those that don't support Ukraine .... And with your observation implied that there are a couple of plain Russian troll propaganda shills.
 
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#70,931
#70,931
KB5252 said:
I agree with your summation of the two basic modes of thought here regarding those that don't support Ukraine .... And with your observation implied that there are a couple of plain Russian troll propaganda shills.
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His post was pure partisanship garbage on display. I don't think we have but one or 2 members that do not support Ukraine defending themselves, what we have is several members including myself that believe it should be Europe footing the bill for Ukraine's defense. I hope Ukraine soundly defeats the Russians and pushes them completely out the country including the taking back of Crimea.

I firmly believe bearded would be singing a completely opposite tune if Trump or any other Republican were sitting in the WH following the exact same strategy as Biden is.
 
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#70,932
#70,932
hog88 said:
His post was pure partisanship garbage on display. I don't think we have but one or 2 members that do not support Ukraine defending themselves, what we have is several members including myself that believe it should be Europe footing the bill for Ukraine's defense. I hope Ukraine soundly defeats the Russians and pushes them completely out the country including the taking back of Crimea.

I firmly believe bearded would be singing a completely opposite tune if Trump or any other Republican were sitting in the WH following the exact same strategy as Biden is.
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But you aren't in the groups he was talking about. You are in the support Ukrainians just think we shouldn't be footing the bill camp.
 
#70,934
#70,934
Rocky_Top_Vol13 said:
F5fNYzdXAAA1qUx
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500k dead Ukrainians...

 
#70,936
#70,936
KB5252 said:
But you aren't in the groups he was talking about. You are in the support Ukrainians just think we shouldn't be footing the bill camp.
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Who wouldn't support the Ukrainian people or the Russian people for that matter? Both are suffering because of corrupt leadership. The astounding part of this thread is the mass propaganda that is being spread. The Ukrainian people are definitely taking the worst of this. It would be great for the Ukrainian people to defeat the Russian army. This just doesn't seem to be the reality. If fighting on is worse on the people rather than finding a way to more peacefully end the war, the latter should be pursued. As far as the laundering of our tax dollars by our corrupt gov. thru the Ukraine war, that should cease immediately.

Ukrainian women to be conscripted as the country faces Russian forces | SecurityWomen

Ukraine’s MoD has expanded the pool of Ukrainian women who are required to register for possible military conscription in the event of a major war.
www.securitywomen.org www.securitywomen.org

Ask yourself why this is happening, or how it will go?
 
#70,938
#70,938
KB5252 said:
I agree with your summation of the two basic modes of thought here regarding those that don't support Ukraine .... And with your observation implied that there are a couple of plain Russian troll propaganda shills.
Click to expand...

I think it's a given that if one is actively paid by Russia to further their influence operation, that one supports Russia; I don't even count them since the grift is itself is an invalidation of their opinion on the subject.
 
#70,941
#70,941
tnmarktx said:
Who wouldn't support the Ukrainian people or the Russian people for that matter? Both are suffering because of corrupt leadership. The astounding part of this thread is the mass propaganda that is being spread. The Ukrainian people are definitely taking the worst of this. It would be great for the Ukrainian people to defeat the Russian army. This just doesn't seem to be the reality. If fighting on is worse on the people rather than finding a way to more peacefully end the war, the latter should be pursued. As far as the laundering of our tax dollars by our corrupt gov. thru the Ukraine war, that should cease immediately.

Ukrainian women to be conscripted as the country faces Russian forces | SecurityWomen

Ukraine’s MoD has expanded the pool of Ukrainian women who are required to register for possible military conscription in the event of a major war.
www.securitywomen.org www.securitywomen.org

Ask yourself why this is happening, or how it will go?
Click to expand...

Ukraine is suffering because of a 9 year long Russian invasion.

Corruption in the Ukrainian government has nothing to do with Russia dropping cruise missiles on apartment buildings and market centers.
 
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#70,944
#70,944
hog88 said:
His post was pure partisanship garbage on display. I don't think we have but one or 2 members that do not support Ukraine defending themselves, what we have is several members including myself that believe it should be Europe footing the bill for Ukraine's defense. I hope Ukraine soundly defeats the Russians and pushes them completely out the country including the taking back of Crimea.

I firmly believe bearded would be singing a completely opposite tune if Trump or any other Republican were sitting in the WH following the exact same strategy as Biden is.
Click to expand...

And you know this about me how exactly?

I was critical of Bush for Iraq and Afghanistan, and not taking a strong stance against Russia's invasion of Georgia in 2008, and was critical of Obama's response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Unlike yourself apparently, some of us are not single issue voters, and I've personally never voted strictly for one party or another in an election, based on party affiliation alone, nor have I felt the need to agree with a political candidate on 100% of the issues to cast my vote for them.
 
#70,945
#70,945
BeardedVol said:
Ukraine is suffering because of a 9 year long Russian invasion.

Corruption in the Ukrainian government has nothing to do with Russia dropping cruise missiles on apartment buildings and market centers.
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It has to do with Putin like governing and putting them thru a fight they can't win. What of the conscription of women being required now? If the Ukrainians were kicking ass as most of you brag about, would this be happening? None of you actually care about the people of Ukraine, much like their gov and ours, you just have blood libel for Putin. If that's your end goal, why not post that the sacrifice of all Ukrainians lives are worth it. At least that's a believable statement.
 
#70,946
#70,946
tnmarktx said:
It has to do with Putin like governing and putting them thru a fight they can't win. What of the conscription of women being required now? If the Ukrainians were kicking ass as most of you brag about, would this be happening? None of you actually care about the people of Ukraine, much like their gov and ours, you just have blood libel for Putin. If that's your end goal, why not post that the sacrifice of all Ukrainians lives are worth it. At least that's a believable statement.
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"Putin like governing"? Please, do elaborate, on what is "Putin like" about Ukraine's government, and why even if it were to be an accurate statement, would somehow justify Russia's genocidal invasion of their country, that you believe the Ukrainian people should capitulate to?

The Ukrainians are choosing to resist Russia, why you seem to be incapable of comprehending that fact, is beyond all logic at this point.

1694194642398.png
 
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#70,947
#70,947
BeardedVol said:
And you know this about me how exactly?

I was critical of Bush for Iraq and Afghanistan, and not taking a strong stance against Russia's invasion of Georgia in 2008, and was critical of Obama's response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Unlike yourself apparently, some of us are not single issue voters, and I've personally never voted strictly for one party or another in an election, based on party affiliation alone, nor have I felt the need to agree with a political candidate on 100% of the issues to cast my vote for them.
Click to expand...

Dude you’re as transparent as glass. Your support of our Ukraine policy is an extension of your support for this administration.
 
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#70,949
#70,949
BeardedVol said:
"Putin like governing"? Please, do elaborate, on what is "Putin like" about Ukraine's government, and why even if it were to be an accurate statement, would somehow justify Russia's genocidal invasion of their country, that you believe the Ukrainian people should capitulate to?

The Ukrainians are choosing to resist Russia, why you seem to be incapable of comprehending that fact, is beyond all logic at this point.

View attachment 577137
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The Ukrainian gov is as corrupt as the Russian. I know Putin is portrayed as the devil, but even our gov is more corrupt. The only thin line we have vs. these other countries and ours is the constitution, highlighted by the second amendment.
 
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