War in Ukraine

#79,176
#79,176
MontyPython said:
Hmmm. Speaking of Ukraine - populated largely with Russian descendants - voted overwhelmingly to leave the USSR.

Your "Russia only invaded areas that were largely populated by pro-Russians" just got flushed down the toilet, comrade.

View attachment 644573
KEY: PERCENTAGE OF UKRAINIANS THAT THINK @volgr LOVES BIG, HAIRY RUSSIAN BALLS
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That vote was 30+ years ago? Neither Country has changed in 30+ years?

Russian liberated areas in the Donbas voted a year ago, overwhelmingly, to join Russia. Which vote is more important, the one 30+ years ago or the one last year?
 
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#79,177
#79,177
BeardedVol said:
So you believe that a foreign power is within its right to facilitate succession in a neighboring county, as long as someone holds a 'referendum' after the foreign power has invaded? Interesting.

Did the "overwhelming" vote in eastern Ukraine occur before or after Russia invaded, displacing 2.6+ million Ukrainians, and were those 2.6+ million displaced Ukrainians allowed to vote in those referendums?
www.usip.org

Ukraine's 'Invisible Crisis': 1.5 Million Who Fled War With Russia

When 5,000 people flooded into a city of 500,000 in one night with little more than the pajamas on their backs, they were greeted by the mayor and an assemblage of churches and civic groups ready to embrace them with shelter, food, clothing and moral support. The scene might sound like something...
www.usip.org www.usip.org
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I believe Russia was well within the right to do what they did and are doing.
 
#79,180
#79,180
volgr said:
That vote was 30+ years ago? Neither Country has changed in 30+ years?

Russian liberated areas in the Donbas voted a year ago, overwhelmingly, to join Russia. Which vote is more important, the one 30+ years ago or the one last year?
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Was that before it after they invaded liked and it chased off those that didn't want them there?

You can't be serious thinking a vote held at gunpoint in an invaded country after chasing off most of the inhabitants is anywhere near reflective of the will of the people can you? Is this really your position?
 
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#79,181
#79,181
KB5252 said:
Was that before it after they invaded liked and it chased off those that didn't want them there?

You can't be serious thinking a vote held at gunpoint in an invaded country after chasing off most of the inhabitants is anywhere near reflective of the will of the people can you? Is this really your position?
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You certainly can put people into vans you don't like and drop them off in ditches. I mean isn't that U.S. policy either take over the country via invasion or coop, install puppet government. (not really a question)

Either way how is it our concern.

Any government can tell another government they don't think their process is fair, its easy to do. You don't care for those people.
 
#79,182
#79,182
volgr said:
That vote was 30+ years ago? Neither Country has changed in 30+ years?

Russian liberated areas in the Donbas voted a year ago, overwhelmingly, to join Russia. Which vote is more important, the one 30+ years ago or the one last year?
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Here in the United States (you know... that country across the big pond from where you live), we voted 250+ years ago to tell England to go **** themselves.

Guess what... we ain't changed our minds since them.

Your "vote at gunpoint" gibberish is laughable.
 
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#79,184
#79,184
LSU-SIU said:
You certainly can put people into vans you don't like and drop them off in ditches. I mean isn't that U.S. policy either take over the country via invasion or coop, install puppet government. (not really a question)

Either way how is it our concern.

Any government can tell another government they don't think their process is fair, its easy to do. You don't care for those people.
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He's using a bogus referendum to legitimize the invasion........ Yeah, that does matter in an intellectually honest conversation.
 
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#79,185
#79,185
volgr said:
Or America could allow Ukraine to sign a peaceful ceasefire and thus avert WW3, but that would mean saving innocent lives and the Western Death Cult isnt down with that.
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America has to save face. That is the most important thing of all. We cannot look weak... even though we lost in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, Ukraine and Yemen.
 
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#79,193
#79,193
NorthDallas40 said:
I’d guess not since Catherine the Great. Peter struggled against Sweden but eventually had some success. From Lenin on the only asses Russia has soundly kicked have been Russian I believe.
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Correct. Without western material and assistance Russia/USSR has been completely inept unless they are fighting unarmed peasants.
 
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#79,195
#79,195
NorthDallas40 said:
I’d guess not since Catherine the Great. Peter struggled against Sweden but eventually had some success. From Lenin on the only asses Russia has soundly kicked have been Russian I believe.
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Tsar Alexander deserves credit for defeating Napoleon's invasion when nobody else was stopping him. Well, maybe Russian geography and climate deserves most of the credit, but that's still a notable Russian victory.
 
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#79,196
#79,196
KB5252 said:
He's using a bogus referendum to legitimize the invasion........ Yeah, that does matter in an intellectually honest conversation.
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Well, there is nothing bogus in my post nor did I legitimize the invasion. Anyone can invading anyone else for any reason see U.S. foreign policy. Nothing has to be justified.

Let's be honest you don't care about any of the people there, and that's okay I guess.

Yeah, that does matter in an intellectually honest conversation.
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I agree, so acting accordingly would probably be helpful.
 
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#79,197
#79,197
hog88 said:
How did we lose in Korea, Iraq and Syria?
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What exactly was won?

**** I'm still trying to figure out what the United States is doing in Syria, heck, Hillary was selling arms to three parties of the conflict. Exactly what do you think is going to be won there, stealing people's oil revenue? My cousin was injured in Syria, a building fell on him.... literally for no real reason.

Eventually, Iraq and Syria will be losing conflicts as nothing worth anything will be gained and lots of money and people will have been wasted. The first Iraq war had a pretty successful outcome, although the neocons went in for another bite for more money. I would say the vast majority of conflicts the United States has been involved in my lifetime have basically failed in part or all. In many cases had the opposite intended outcome.

The question to me is why is the United States involved in so many conflicts around the world not even close to its border?
 
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#79,199
#79,199
LSU-SIU said:
What exactly was won?

**** I'm still trying to figure out what the United States is doing in Syria, heck, Hillary was selling arms to three parties of the conflict. Exactly what do you think is going to be won there, stealing people's oil revenue? My cousin was injured in Syria, a building fell on him.... literally for no real reason.

Eventually, Iraq and Syria will be losing conflicts as nothing worth anything will be gained and lots of money and people will have been wasted. The first Iraq war had a pretty successful outcome, although the neocons went in for another bite for more money. I would say the vast majority of conflicts the United States has been involved in my lifetime have basically failed in part or all. In many cases had the opposite intended outcome.

The question to me is why is the United States involved in so many conflicts around the world not even close to its border?
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Lobbyists
 
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#79,200
#79,200
NorthDallas40 said:
I’d guess not since Catherine the Great. Peter struggled against Sweden but eventually had some success. From Lenin on the only asses Russia has soundly kicked have been Russian I believe.
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Well, three million Germans didn't have a very good day in Russia.
 
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