War in Ukraine

#80,801
#80,801
McDad said:
I don't want this to go anywhere...I didn't have an agenda to score debate points or whatever. I wanted to understand how you think about Ukraine wrt Independence.

Has Russia affirmed Ukraine's independence since the early 1990s?
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As I said, words are overused that are general concepts.

Russia is going to affirm Ukraine's independence right into Poland, imo. There really is not much to this war, I'm surprised this thread even gets anything in it.
 
#80,802
#80,802
LSU-SIU said:
I don't know what this means to be honest. It will have no bearing to the outcome of the conflict.
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It's the propaganda Russia uses to pretend it hasn't committed the war crimes it most definitely has committed. It's how it will respond
the outrage about its bombing of the childen's hospital, which is just the tragically latest in a long series of war crimes.
 
#80,803
#80,803
The war in Ukraine will properly end when Vlad Putin is sent to the gallows in The Hague, like Nazi leaders before him, to
be hanged for his crimes against humanity.
 
#80,804
#80,804
turbovol said:
It's the propaganda Russia uses to pretend it hasn't committed the war crimes it most definitely has committed. It's how it will respond
the outrage about its bombing of the childen's hospital, which is just the tragically latest in a long series of war crimes.
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Everyone screams, "war crimes!", just like they everyone screams, "freedom!".
 
#80,806
#80,806
LSU-SIU said:
Everyone screams, "war crimes!", just like they everyone screams, "freedom!".
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Good grief: Wrong, ace. Are you suggesting that the claims of war crimes are just rhetoric? There have been formal investigations
by a UN commission and other bodies, and they've concluded that Russia has committed numerous war crimes and continues to commit them.
Not that formal investigations are really needed. When you see innocent civilians murdered in the streets of their towns/villages, when women are raped, when civilian residences, hospitals,schools, etc are bombed, when children are stolen from their homes....you've got war crimes. Scores of nations have issued arrest warrants for Putin.

ukraine.un.org

UN Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine finds continued war crimes and human rights violations gravely impacting civilians   

As the armed conflict in Ukraine continues in its second year, it has further contributed to suffering and hardships for thousands of affected civilians. 
ukraine.un.org ukraine.un.org
 
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#80,807
#80,807
turbovol said:
Good grief: Wrong, ace. Are you suggesting that the claims of war crimes are just rhetoric? There have been formal investigations
by a UN commission and other bodies, and they've concluded that Russia has committed numerous war crimes and continues to commit them.
Not that formal investigations are really needed. When you see innocent civilians murdered in the streets of their towns/villages, when women are raped, when civilian residences, hospitals,schools, etc are bombed, when children are stolen from their homes....you've got war crimes. Scores of nations have issued arrest warrants for Putin.

ukraine.un.org

UN Commission of Inquiry on Ukraine finds continued war crimes and human rights violations gravely impacting civilians   

As the armed conflict in Ukraine continues in its second year, it has further contributed to suffering and hardships for thousands of affected civilians. 
ukraine.un.org ukraine.un.org
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So?

I would suggest those people get out of Dodge to be honest.
 
#80,808
#80,808
LSU-SIU said:
As I said, words are overused that are general concepts.

Russia is going to affirm Ukraine's independence right into Poland, imo. There really is not much to this war, I'm surprised this thread even gets anything in it.
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What does it mean to affirm Ukraine's independence right into Poland???
 
#80,809
#80,809
McDad said:
What does it mean to affirm Ukraine's independence right into Poland???
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I’m thinking his hope is that the word Ukraine is never on a map going forward. Instead both Poland and Russia get a little bigger.
 
#80,810
#80,810
C/O said:
I’m thinking his hope is that the word Ukraine is never on a map going forward. Instead both Poland and Russia get a little bigger.
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Its not my "hope" for anything, logically that is where it is going and has been quite some time. Realistically, that is the only way the glitch gets fixed long-term, imo. I said in 2022, it could take considerable time - I think I said a decade or two. (I would probably say less then a decade at this point though) There really isn't much to this conflict.
 
#80,811
#80,811
C/O said:
I’m thinking his hope is that the word Ukraine is never on a map going forward. Instead both Poland and Russia get a little bigger.
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It's possible. LSU has been patient and willing to provide context and clarity. I am sure he will this time as well.
 
#80,812
#80,812
McDad said:
It's possible. LSU has been patient and willing to provide context and clarity. I am sure he will this time as well.
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There isn't anything to clarify. Same thing I said in 2022. Most likely it will have to be all brought down, the population will have to move West or die.

Pretty simple.
 
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#80,813
#80,813
LSU-SIU said:
There isn't anything to clarify. Same thing I said in 2022. Most likely it will have to be all brought down, the population will have to move West or die.

Pretty simple.
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So Russia affirming Ukraine's independence means that Ukraine and Poland will no longer exist as separate countries?
 
#80,814
#80,814
McDad said:
So Russia affirming Ukraine's independence means that Ukraine and Poland will no longer exist as separate countries?
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I think the initial hope by the Russians is that Poland would annex them by invasion or cooperate with the take over. I think that hope is gone and Russia knows (or is slowly coming to the same conclusion) that it will just all needs to be brought down. It will become Europe's issue. with the influx of people.

There aren't really any good options for the Ukraine, never was once the invasion started.
 
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#80,815
#80,815
McDad said:
So Russia affirming Ukraine's independence means that Ukraine and Poland will no longer exist as separate countries?
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More of making fun of all the "independence" speak. The present course is - the Ukraine ceases to exist i.e. a real war. Destroy it, move West, get the people out of there.... rinse and repeat until you hit the Poland border. Its going to take awhile, but its really the only way as the Ukrainians are ****ed. I think the Russians have been delusional to a degree that they wouldn't have to wipe out the whole country, it was obvious once the US. told the Ukraine to break all that off.
 
#80,816
#80,816
LSU-SIU said:
More of making fun of all the "independence" speak. The present course is - the Ukraine ceases to exist i.e. a real war. Destroy it, move West, get the people out of there.... rinse and repeat until you hit the Poland border. Its going to take awhile, but its really the only way as the Ukrainians are ****ed.
Click to expand...

Putin will die before that happens.
 
#80,819
#80,819
LSU-SIU said:
More of making fun of all the "independence" speak. The present course is - the Ukraine ceases to exist i.e. a real war. Destroy it, move West, get the people out of there.... rinse and repeat until you hit the Poland border. Its going to take awhile, but its really the only way as the Ukrainians are ****ed. I think the Russians have been delusional to a degree that they wouldn't have to wipe out the whole country, it was obvious once the US. told the Ukraine to break all that off.
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I don't think you need to make fun of the independence talk...at least not with me. I have been respectful of how you define independence even though I don't agree with your definition.

I think my opinion of Ukraine's independence is actually bolstered by how Russia has affirmed it in treaties and agreements. Many times the Russian spokesperson has signed their name to documents declaring Ukraine independent and respecting its borders. Russia seems to agree to things when it suits them and call "foul" when it doesn't.

The USSR failed. The territories they "controlled" are now independent countries. Many of those other former territories are already in NATO. And if that's what the governments decide to do, then they have the ability to self determine.
 
#80,820
#80,820
McDad said:
I don't think you need to make fun of the independence talk...at least not with me. I have been respectful of how you define independence even though I don't agree with your definition.
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My point is, none of that matters. Whether you and I agree is not material to the conclusion.

This conflict wasn't hard to predict, the U.S. actually predicted it nearly 30 years ago. Cause (make the cause) and effect.

Nobody really cares.
 
#80,822
#80,822
LSU-SIU said:
My point is, none of that matters. Whether you and I agree is not material to the conclusion.

This conflict wasn't hard to predict, the U.S. actually predicted it nearly 30 years ago. Cause (make the cause) and effect.

Nobody really cares.
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I agree our agreement is immaterial to the conclusion.

My care is I continue to hope America will stay in her lane and let other countries handle their issues themselves.
 
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