War in Ukraine

[BeardedVol]

And that is why there will be no peace as long as people who think as you do run State.

Look, I am happy to screw over the bear whenever it benefits us but reality is our neocons went looking for another place to meddle. We did the typical CIA coup to get someone else into power who would be our lackey. Meanwhile, they began to settle scores with ethnic Russians in the "red" side of the state. Naturally, Ivan didnt care for that.

Before all this, Ukraine was listed as one of the most corrupt states on earth and "the big guy" made his share. Now it is a money pit for our chicken hawks and their war machine, nothing more.

Again, we (the good ol US of A) has no benefit for continued fighting - indeed, it has caused a serious national security issue because now drone warfare has exposed our enormous vulnerability in that front against our expensive weapons. Houthis are doing same in Yemen against our navy.

Putin will never ever accept Nato on his doorstep any more than we would accept him putting weapons in Havana or Mexio. Not going to happen. That gives them no reaction time against strategic strikes so for them, it is existential worth dying for. For Americans? it is a money suck for absolutely no reason at all. We gain nothing, and I mean NOTHING. Only people who gain are the arms merchants.

If you want someone to blame why Ukraine had to take it up the ass these last 2 years go talk to Victoria Nuland and her master Soros.

Lock Ukraine down, make it a buffer zone with its own defense system but with NO major power arms there and they will be fine - today. And that is all you can do for anyone. For tomorrow is not promised by any leader or treaty.

Lol Russia literally took a gigantic dump on every treaty they signed with Ukraine, why would anyone in Ukraine trust another treaty with Russia?

The reality is that the only chance they have of actual peace is NATO membership, or obtaining nuclear weapons, which they have stated is the alternative, if NATO membership is denied to them.

You can parrot all of the Russian nonsense about corruption that you want, literally every country that suffered under the yoke of the USSR had problems with corruption, and Ukraine suffered under Russian influences for longer than others, but has making strides in rooting out entrenched corruption. None of you who constantly make claims of Biden or anyone else benefitting from Putin invading Ukraine have been able to produce any evidence, but if you have such evidence, please do share it with the rest of us.

Putin has had "NATO on his doorstep", for 25+ years now (you really should learn basic geography and history), and did nothing when Sweden and Finland joined; in fact he reduced the Russian military presence on the Finnish border after they joined NATO.

I get it that you are a coward who'd surrender at the first chance he got if the US were invaded, but the Ukrainians seem to be much more committed to defending their country against the Russian invaders who are raping and murdering them, and it's their choice whether the continue that fight, and what the ultimate destiny of their country will be.

 

[Gandalf]

Lol Russia literally took a gigantic dump on every treaty they signed with Ukraine, why would anyone in Ukraine trust another treaty with Russia?

The reality is that the only chance they have of actual peace is NATO membership, or obtaining nuclear weapons, which they have stated is the alternative, if NATO membership is denied to them.

You can parrot all of the Russian nonsense about corruption that you want, literally every country that suffered under the yoke of the USSR had problems with corruption, and Ukraine suffered under Russian influences for longer than others, but has making strides in rooting out entrenched corruption. None of you who constantly make claims of Biden or anyone else benefitting from Putin invading Ukraine have been able to produce any evidence, but if you have such evidence, please do share it with the rest of us.

Putin has had "NATO on his doorstep", for 25+ years now (you really should learn basic geography and history), and did nothing when Sweden and Finland joined; in fact he reduced the Russian military pretense on the Finnish border after they joined NATO.

I get it that you are a coward who'd surrender at the first chance he got if the US were invaded, but the Ukrainians seem to be much more committed to defending their country against the Russian invaders who are raping and murdering them, and it's their choice whether the continue that fight, and what the ultimate destiny of their country will be.

But you see (actually, you dont) this has NOTHING to do with the USA at all. Of course the Ukrainians are much more committed to defending their country - THEY HAVE BEEN INVADED. But my question, which you and few other chickenhawks seem to ever answer is:

"Why should the US be committed to defending Ukraine?" What exactly do we get out of it?

We were told that defeating the bad people in Iraq was because Saddam was bad and we spent thousands of lives and 1 trillion USD of our children's money to make Iraq free - but hey, at least we got the oil and that is a real national interest at least...wait, you are saying we didnt get the oil? Then what the hell did we get there?

How is this any different? Sure Putin is a bastard but why should I care what Russia does or Ukraine does? And absolutely WHY IN THE HELL SHOULD WE SIGN AN AGREEMENT THAT WILL SEND OUR GUYS TO WAR WHEN THE USA IS IN NO WAY THREATENED? Again, why? Will Ukraine give us their ports on the black sea? Will they even be paying us back in tribute for the 100s of BILLIONS of USD?

NO, you know damn well they wont. Once this war is over our rapacious pricks in DC will go and lend them EVEN MORE of our money to rebuild while homeless wander around in our own cities and veterans cannot get necessary healthcare.

Give me something we actually would get out of it that is a true national interest that enriches our population, not just warmongering weapons merchants - and I would be willing to risk WW3. Otherwise, take your fake courage and tell the Ukrainians that you are committed to fighting this war to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

 

[BeardedVol]

"Why should the US be committed to defending Ukraine?"

This has been explained, ad nauseum, we convinced them to give up nuclear weapons, and destroy their missiles and long rang bombers, for security assurances that we would make sure their sovereignty was not threatened by a nuclear power.

Don't want the US to uphold the obligations we agreed to? Fine, then we can provide recompense for the weapons Ukraine destroyed or gave to Russia in order to comply with our demands.

https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/ukraine-nuclear-disarmament/

 

[lawgator1]

But you see (actually, you dont) this has NOTHING to do with the USA at all. Of course the Ukrainians are much more committed to defending their country - THEY HAVE BEEN INVADED. But my question, which you and few other chickenhawks seem to ever answer is:

"Why should the US be committed to defending Ukraine?" What exactly do we get out of it?

We were told that defeating the bad people in Iraq was because Saddam was bad and we spent thousands of lives and 1 trillion USD of our children's money to make Iraq free - but hey, at least we got the oil and that is a real national interest at least...wait, you are saying we didnt get the oil? Then what the hell did we get there?

How is this any different? Sure Putin is a bastard but why should I care what Russia does or Ukraine does? And absolutely WHY IN THE HELL SHOULD WE SIGN AN AGREEMENT THAT WILL SEND OUR GUYS TO WAR WHEN THE USA IS IN NO WAY THREATENED? Again, why? Will Ukraine give us their ports on the black sea? Will they even be paying us back in tribute for the 100s of BILLIONS of USD?

NO, you know damn well they wont. Once this war is over our rapacious pricks in DC will go and lend them EVEN MORE of our money to rebuild while homeless wander around in our own cities and veterans cannot get necessary healthcare.

Give me something we actually would get out of it that is a true national interest that enriches our population, not just warmongering weapons merchants - and I would be willing to risk WW3. Otherwise, take your fake courage and tell the Ukrainians that you are committed to fighting this war to the last drop of Ukrainian blood.

Your test conveniently limits itself to a specific, tangible US benefit when we all know that the reason we are helping Ukraine fend off Russia is to dissuade Putin from doing it again. Your question is like saying we should have stayed out of WW 2 because France wouldn't promise to give us a port if we freed their territory from Hitler.

 

[Gandalf]

This has been explained, ad nauseum, we convinced them to give up nuclear weapons, and destroy their missiles and long rang bombers, for security assurances that we would make sure their sovereignty was not threatened by a nuclear power.

Don't want the US to uphold the obligations we agreed to? Fine, then we can provide recompense for the weapons Ukraine destroyed or gave to Russia in order to comply with our demands.

View attachment 712055

https://www.nti.org/analysis/articles/ukraine-nuclear-disarmament/

Yes, let’s tell all that to the Afghans we left to be murdered by the Talibs after they put their lives and families on the line for us.

The problem is we began to mess with that agreement we had also given the Russians. Which is fine btw if we had gotten away with it but the Russians saw it as encroaching and so pushed back when they saw our leaders were weak (see Afghanistan) and thought it was a good time to push the issue.

 

[BeardedVol]

Yes, let’s tell all that to the Afghans we left to be murdered by the Talibs after they put their lives and families on the line for us.

The problem is we began to mess with that agreement we had also given the Russians. Which is fine btw if we had gotten away with it but the Russians saw it as encroaching and so pushed back when they saw our leaders were weak (see Afghanistan) and thought it was a good time to push the issue.

Nice 'whataboutism', but we spent 20 years camped out in Afghanistan, and they didn't choose to create a functioning government, that could manage a week without US troops.

That's on them, but continue on with you false equivalence.

It doesn't matter what you think Russia thought about anything, Russia signed th NATO founding act. Have you actually read the NATO founding act?

 

[MontyPython]

Putin will never ever accept Nato on his doorstep any more than we would accept him putting weapons in Havana or Mexio. Not going to happen. That gives them no reaction time against strategic strikes so for them, it is existential worth dying for. For Americans? it is a money suck for absolutely no reason at all. We gain nothing, and I mean NOTHING. Only people who gain are the arms merchants.

If you want someone to blame why Ukraine had to take it up the ass these last 2 years go talk to Victoria Nuland and her master Soros.

Lock Ukraine down, make it a buffer zone with its own defense system but with NO major power arms there and they will be fine - today. And that is all you can do for anyone. For tomorrow is not promised by any leader or treaty.

Finland says HI!

 

[BreatheUT]

And that is why there will be no peace as long as people who think as you do run State.

Look, I am happy to screw over the bear whenever it benefits us but reality is our neocons went looking for another place to meddle. We did the typical CIA coup to get someone else into power who would be our lackey. Meanwhile, they began to settle scores with ethnic Russians in the "red" side of the state. Naturally, Ivan didnt care for that.

Before all this, Ukraine was listed as one of the most corrupt states on earth and "the big guy" made his share. Now it is a money pit for our chicken hawks and their war machine, nothing more.

Again, we (the good ol US of A) has no benefit for continued fighting - indeed, it has caused a serious national security issue because now drone warfare has exposed our enormous vulnerability in that front against our expensive weapons. Houthis are doing same in Yemen against our navy.

Putin will never ever accept Nato on his doorstep any more than we would accept him putting weapons in Havana or Mexio. Not going to happen. That gives them no reaction time against strategic strikes so for them, it is existential worth dying for. For Americans? it is a money suck for absolutely no reason at all. We gain nothing, and I mean NOTHING. Only people who gain are the arms merchants.

If you want someone to blame why Ukraine had to take it up the ass these last 2 years go talk to Victoria Nuland and her master Soros.

Lock Ukraine down, make it a buffer zone with its own defense system but with NO major power arms there and they will be fine - today. And that is all you can do for anyone. For tomorrow is not promised by any leader or treaty.

He's psyched out of his mind. That's why he knuckle drags this thread.

 

[VOLS INC.]

It’s all good guys. Dementia Joe is leaving. Trump is on his way! This war is about to end.

 

[LSU-SIU]

It’s all good guys. Dementia Joe is leaving. Trump is on his way! This war is about to end.

It would seem like the day the war ends would be very close to the end of his own timeline in this(?)

Why can't it end today? How much coke did he buy on my dime? So, the Ukraine has no say so when the war ends? I thought you guys were Sovreign?

 

[Orange.]

Your test conveniently limits itself to a specific, tangible US benefit when we all know that the reason we are helping Ukraine fend off Russia is to dissuade Putin from doing it again. Your question is like saying we should have stayed out of WW 2 because France wouldn't promise to give us a port if we freed their territory from Hitler.

Hahaha. You’re a neocon. In drag. Shouting “Hitler.”
Not that’s there’s anything wrong with the second.

Mr. pretentious Lefty Pants, the Gator troll, lets his guard slip. Lmfao. MIC tool. Fraud.

 

[Orange.]

@Rasputin_Vol come back to us and explain

Bruh, you know the overbearing operative and gatekeeper who is allegedly paid to keep this thread “under control” allegedly had him evicted for, get this, being a paid operative. You’re not allowed to hear or view unapproved materials. It’s very Soviet, ironically, bruh’s mission.

 

[Orange.]

@thebeardjeanpierre

Do you get a cut of these war bucks and the bonanza that will be the colossal “rebuilding” grift? Or just a salary and retirement? You look up official responses and post them as if they are refutations. And you spent all your days and nights, nose to grindstone.

Or just a fanatic in his mom’s basement?

 

[NorthDallas40]

Bruh, you know the overbearing operative and gatekeeper who is allegedly paid to keep this thread “under control” allegedly had him evicted for, get this, being a paid operative. You’re not allowed to hear or view unapproved materials. It’s very Soviet, ironically, bruh’s mission.

Lol!

 

[volfanhill]

Yes, let’s tell all that to the Afghans we left to be murdered by the Talibs after they put their lives and families on the line for us.

The problem is we began to mess with that agreement we had also given the Russians. Which is fine btw if we had gotten away with it but the Russians saw it as encroaching and so pushed back when they saw our leaders were weak (see Afghanistan) and thought it was a good time to push the issue.

Either we should keep our word or not. That's what this comes down to. And if not, I don't want to hear people mocking Ukraine complaining. The options are:

Yup we signed up for this

Or

Ha we screwed you

We don't have much a reason to complain

 

[Rocky_Top_Vol13]

 

[jwells]

It’s all good guys. Dementia Joe is leaving. Trump is on his way! This war is about to end.

He's playing to Trump's need to ego boosting.

 

[jwells]

Hahaha. You’re a neocon. In drag. Shouting “Hitler.”
Not that’s there’s anything wrong with the second.

Mr. pretentious Lefty Pants, the Gator troll, lets his guard slip. Lmfao. MIC tool. Fraud.

Rather than refute anything you said all this?

 

[lawgator1]

What do you expect him to say???? He knows two things:

1) Trump plans to stop sending aid to him; and,

2) The only way to prevent Trump from handing chunks of Ukraine to Putin on a silver platter is to kiss Trump's butt.

He has no choice but to say he thinks Trump is a great and powerful dude.

We saw this same string of events with Trump in 2016, in other contexts. People try to win over Trump's massive ego and Trump basks in it, but then inevitably screws everyone over, and the whole thing falls apart.

 

[LouderVol]

What do you expect him to say???? He knows two things:

1) Trump plans to stop sending aid to him; and,

2) The only way to prevent Trump from handing chunks of Ukraine to Putin on a silver platter is to kiss Trump's butt.

He has no choice but to say he thinks Trump is a great and powerful dude.

We saw this same string of events with Trump in 2016, in other contexts. People try to win over Trump's massive ego and Trump basks in it, but then inevitably screws everyone over, and the whole thing falls apart.

what is Russia going to invade Ukraine? oh wait...

and you just described all of politics. especially the entire Biden policy for it. Zelensky would come to down to kiss Dems butts and would be given a few billion. everytime it would start to dry up he would come back around.

You know plus the presidential pardon, that just coincidentally I am sure, covers all of Hunter's time as a VP in one of Ukraines largest and most corrupt corporations and how that reflected Biden's support of Ukraine.

 

[VOLS INC.]

Trump is a great and powerful dude.

I agree LG!

Solid take.

 

[NCFisher]

Peace can be attained with Ukraine becoming a NATO member.
It'd also require Russia becoming a member.
Which Putin had expressed interest in til blinkered NATO chieftans treated them as just any podunk country wanting admission.
Which woud also re-establish a natural chasm between Russia and China.

 

[LSU-SIU]

What do you expect him to say???? He knows two things:

1) Trump plans to stop sending aid to him; and,

2) The only way to prevent Trump from handing chunks of Ukraine to Putin on a silver platter is to kiss Trump's butt.

He has no choice but to say he thinks Trump is a great and powerful dude.

We saw this same string of events with Trump in 2016, in other contexts. People try to win over Trump's massive ego and Trump basks in it, but then inevitably screws everyone over, and the whole thing falls apart.

Even that isn't a great option even if it were an option. I doubt most of any of that is going to help the final result in any meaningful way.

and the whole thing falls apart

That is the most likely outcome regardless from the beginning. Maybe it was just a matter of "when" it break/broke down, not "if"? I was from the future. It's about obtaining the most that is possible before you burn the whole place down Goodfellas style. There is only so much laundry you can get out of a washing machine.

If one is not "great and powerful" than logically speaking that person wouldn't need to be treated as "great and powerful", in short, you yourself believe Trump is "great and powerful".

 

[LSU-SIU]

I agree LG!

Solid take.

Not sure I agree with the first part one way or another, the second half is true. What is clear is LG believes Trump is "great and powerful", however, I'm not sure that is what he was really going for.

 

[MontyPython]

King Donald, time is running out on your campaign promise...

Per PBS:

Former President Donald Trump said if reelected he would end the war in Ukraine before his inauguration because he is respected by Ukraine and Russia's leaders.

"That is a war that's dying to be settled. I will get it settled before I even become president," the Republican said during his debate with Vice President Kamala Harris on Tuesday. If I win, when I'm president-elect and what I'll do is I'll speak to one, I'll speak to the other, I'll get them together."